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13th July 12, 05:23 AM
#1
Wow... I just looked a little more closely at the sword arm in the copy, and noticed how crudely done it is. Note how the arm above the blade doesn't match the arm below the blade (unless the poor Earl had had his upper arm broken and it healed at an angle) and how huge the hand in the basket is (more like a big blob of flesh than a hand).
BTW as I recall from my Scotland trip in the 1980s, when I saw the copy in The National Portrait Gallery in Edinburgh, I saw yet another copy at one of the castles. Could be that I'm misremembering, but I seem to recall that. My wife and I toured a load of castles on that trip and it could have been at any of them.
It's misleading and irresponsible, by the way, that The National Museums Scotland website lists the copy as being by Copley himself. Didn't before; it was listed as what it is, an unsigned and undated painting by an unknown artist. The proper way to list it is "after Copley" and it's so listed in some of the books it's reproduced in.
Last edited by OC Richard; 13th July 12 at 05:27 AM.
Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte
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17th July 12, 05:11 PM
#2
sporran
I got a funny feeling it may be leopard mounted against leather . American Revolutionary hero Gen Nicholas Herkimer who lost his leg and his life at Oriskany NY, was shot through the leg maybe killed his horse ..he was set up under the beech tree adn directed the fight sitting on his saddle . A famous stutue and paitings show his horse pistol holsters still in place ..horse pistols would be much bigger than normal if carrying on your belt . Well my pal owned his holsters he told me about them me being a great admirer of the general ..scarlet red wool and leopard ..he described them in detail and to me it was hard to put together ..then another pal was happy to show me his book he got form his sons ..on New York State artifacts ..and as I opened the book ..BAM !! opened right up to good ole Gen'l Nicholas' holsters onl htne could you admire the workmanship vs my imagination .
Also later on ..leopard is seen in many other works and decorations beign so exotic coming form Africa, either for effect or to exhibit the financial pockets of the owner .
wanna stand out from regular guys with badgers ..wear leopard !
an artifact now hanging on forever I was given spears from Africa by a WW2 officer ..they'd strips of calf or cow wound round for decoration and I think delicate leather lace dicing ..like beadwork, apparently it was a badge of office for a boy going to man ..had to kill lion with spear then it was turned into a sort of swagger stick for ..conversations . The hair being 62 yrs old ..not modern leather work factory tanned ..things can get rather ...well have you ever seen an old taxidemry mount !
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17th July 12, 05:18 PM
#3
portrait
in a portrait in a studio ..on commission ..on field accuracy might take second compared to a rich officer wanting to be paited as best as he possibly could vs how he looked at this battle or that hike up the Hudson . ie art might lean toward drama . Wiered thing is our famous Major Duncan Campbell appears far left according to experts in a paiting showing Black Watch firing by platoons in ..Glasgow I think befor eembarking for America ..he sits on a horse in trousers and a tricorn and red jacket ..by drummers ..at least it hsows the men in plaids and bonnets what appears to be the Balmoral kind than the Hummel Bonnet in the Eglinton portrait . You really have to squint to get anything else . (jest) .
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13th July 12, 07:03 PM
#4
Also the colours of the second painting...
dreadful to my eye.
Gillmore of Clan Morrison
"Long Live the Long Shirts!"- Ryan Ross
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15th July 12, 06:26 AM
#5
the uniform is the uniform of the 42nd RHR during the Revolutionary war
Hunting, fishing, drawing, and music occupied my every moment. Cares I knew not, and cared naught about them.
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15th July 12, 08:43 AM
#6
 Originally Posted by clan campbell
the uniform is the uniform of the 42nd RHR during the Revolutionary war
...Disagree CC! The 42d, during the American Revolution, wore BLUE facings (the color worn by all "Royal" regiments) and the officers wore gold braid . These facings, at least in my eyes, are clearly GREEN with silver braid, indicating Hugh Montgomerie to be a member of the 77th Highlanders (called Montgomery's Highlanders after their Colonel, Archibold Montgomery)...see post #8. I was wrong on the event that the painting depicted...but stick by my call on the regiment!
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." -- Thomas Paine
Scottish-American Military Society Post 1921
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15th July 12, 11:50 AM
#7
Originally Posted by longhuntr74
...Disagree CC! The 42d, during the American Revolution, wore BLUE facings (the color worn by all "Royal" regiments) and the officers wore gold braid . These facings, at least in my eyes, are clearly GREEN with silver braid, indicating Hugh Montgomerie to be a member of the 77th Highlanders (called Montgomery's Highlanders after their Colonel, Archibold Montgomery)...see post #8. I was wrong on the event that the painting depicted...but stick by my call on the regiment!
officers wore gold facing and regular men wore silver facing. and the jacket design tell me its revolutionary
Hunting, fishing, drawing, and music occupied my every moment. Cares I knew not, and cared naught about them.
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17th July 12, 03:03 AM
#8
Originally Posted by clan campbell
officers wore gold facing and regular men wore silver facing. and the jacket design tell me its revolutionary
No regiments wore gold facing or silver facing. The "facings" were the lapels on the front of the jacket, the collar, and cuffs, and were Buff, White, Yellow, Blue, or Dark Green. The "lace" was gold or silver depending on regiment.
Barnes gives the following table for 1800 (I've only included the kilted regiments)
Regiment/ Tartan/ Facings/ Lace
42nd/ 42nd/ Blue/ Gold
71st/ MacKenzie/ Buff/ Silver
72nd/ MacKenzie/ Yellow/ Silver
73rd/ 42nd/ Dark Green/ Gold
74th/ 42nd/ White/ Gold
75th/ Gordon/ Yellow/ Silver
78th/ MacKenzie/ Buff/ Gold
79th/ Cameron of Erracht/ Dark Green/ Gold
91st/ 42nd/ Yellow/ Silver
92nd/ Gordon/ Yellow/ Silver
93rd/ 42nd/ Yellow/ Silver
The 77th did not exist in 1800 but we are told that it wore Dark Green facings with Silver lace (interesting because regiments with Dark Green facings usually wore Gold lace.)
Yes indeed that jacket style is of 1780, when the painting was done, and quite different from the style of jacket worn 20 years earlier.
Last edited by OC Richard; 17th July 12 at 03:14 AM.
Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte
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17th July 12, 05:52 AM
#9
Originally Posted by OC Richard
No regiments wore gold facing or silver facing. The "facings" were the lapels on the front of the jacket, the collar, and cuffs, and were Buff, White, Yellow, Blue, or Dark Green. The "lace" was gold or silver depending on regiment.
Barnes gives the following table for 1800 (I've only included the kilted regiments)
Regiment/ Tartan/ Facings/ Lace
42nd/ 42nd/ Blue/ Gold
71st/ MacKenzie/ Buff/ Silver
72nd/ MacKenzie/ Yellow/ Silver
73rd/ 42nd/ Dark Green/ Gold
74th/ 42nd/ White/ Gold
75th/ Gordon/ Yellow/ Silver
78th/ MacKenzie/ Buff/ Gold
79th/ Cameron of Erracht/ Dark Green/ Gold
91st/ 42nd/ Yellow/ Silver
92nd/ Gordon/ Yellow/ Silver
93rd/ 42nd/ Yellow/ Silver
The 77th did not exist in 1800 but we are told that it wore Dark Green facings with Silver lace (interesting because regiments with Dark Green facings usually wore Gold lace.)
Yes indeed that jacket style is of 1780, when the painting was done, and quite different from the style of jacket worn 20 years earlier.
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