The matching of Kilts and accessories.

[David Thorpe]

You are right. There are very few occasions for most of us which would require a PC and where a black Argyle would not do. However, the PC has become the de facto standard for evening attire in many circles here in the US. Events like St. Andrew's Balls and Rabbie Burns Nights will see more PCs than black Argyles. Attend in an Argyle and you might be appropriate, but you also might be alone.
But then the PC has also become overwhelmingly popular for day weddings as well, where by traditional standards the Argyle or even tweed would be far more appropriate, depending on the level of formality. We tend to overdo it here. It's all about the bling. Fly plaids are another example, already discussed in this and many previous threads.

[Downunder Kilt]

My question is that you have not identified the type of function that would require a Prince Charles jacket. I can think of very few functions the average person will be going to that would require the wearing of tails coats/PCs by the men. A nice Argyle with vest would fill 95% to 100% of the social events for most people.

I would say that the only time you should wear Prince Charlie would be to a Black Tie event or a wedding, and only if you are the groom. I think your attendants should wear Argyll's in same material. I totally agree that a tweed argyll would fullfill the requirement of most events one would attend in THCD.

Here is an perfect example of THCD at a wedding worn by one of the guests. Wedding of Prince William and Kate Middleton

[OC Richard]

the type of function that would require a Prince Charles jacket

Yowza I leave this thread for a couple days and the discussion has switched to Prince Charlies being "required".

Let's keep in mind that there's nothing "traditional" about a Prince Charlie... it was devised, as far as all the evidence I can see goes, in the early years of the 20th century.

From the mid 19th century well up into the 20th the standard civilian formal jacket was the "doublet" (as it was called) ... with "Inverness" skirts/flaps/tashes and lapels. It's the most common style by far in The Highlanders of Scotland (1860s) and in nearly all the vintage photos I have. It was worn with a long hair sporran, full tartan hose, buckled shoes, and usually a wing collar shirt with ordinary necktie. Jackets cut exactly like our modern "Argyll" jackets also existed and, in black, were worn as a formal jacket.

For whatever reason civilian Highland Dress went through a massive transformation in the early years of the 20th century, with small pocketlike sporrans becoming standard (leather for day, fur for eve), a number of new evening dress jacket styles being created (Prince Charlie coatee, Montrose doublet, Kenmore doublet, etc) and lace jabots coming into style. What these things have in common, in the "big picture" view, is that they seem to represent a vague attempt at reviving historical fashions of the 18th and early 19th centuries.

So the Prince Charlie, or "coatee" as it was originally called, had the coatee tails of the military jackets of the 1800-1855 period, but itself was a new invention. Highland Dress catalogues in the 1920s imply that the "coatee" was a new fashion and repeatedly stress that it is suitable only for slender young men. These catalogues try to steer older men and stout men to the traditional "doublet".

So no, a Prince Charlie wouldn't be "required" for anything... any jacket which is reasonably formal (Argyll, Kenmore, etc etc) would do. Civilian Highland Dress has never been a uniform, and variety has always been the rule.

[JohntheBiker]

My question is that you have not identified the type of function that would require a Prince Charles jacket. I can think of very few functions the average person will be going to that would require the wearing of tails coats/PCs by the men. A nice Argyle with vest would fill 95% to 100% of the social events for most people.

If you attend a black tie function around here, 98% will be wearing a PC. For most of us, that means the St. Andrews Ball and one or more Burns suppers. Have been known to wear the PC to non-highland black tie events, but you can't be shy if you want to pull that off.

The St. Andrews Ball in Toronto is co-hosted by the St. Andrew's Society and the 48th Highlanders of Canada, so you also get a fair number in highland mess kit.

[creagdhubh]

I don't necessarily see anything terribly wrong with wearing a PC coatee, as I use to own one myself; however, with so many people wearing them and the fact that there are numerous alternatives available in regards to Highland evening attire, I don't see a reason why this would prevent someone from "branching out."

Cheers,

[Tobus]

I don't necessarily see anything terribly wrong with wearing a PC coatee, as I use to own one myself; however, with so many people wearing them and the fact that there are numerous alternatives available in regards to Highland evening attire, I don't see a reason why this would prevent someone from "branching out."

Cheers,

Here it comes, Kyle. You ready for it?

***!

I find it oddly humorous, and not a little ironic, that guys who wear kilts would intentionally want to look like everyone else. Highland attire, unlike Saxon attire, offers wonderful opportunities for individualism while still fitting in with the conventions or dress codes. Wearing a particular style of jacket solely for the purpose of looking like everyone else seems to be an attempt to inject Saxon dress mentality into an area where it doesn't belong.

If I had the choice between wearing a PC to match the other 98% of guests, or wearing a black Argyll and still meeting the expected level of dress, guess which one I'd choose.

[David Thorpe]

Double *** - Kyle and Tobus

I don't own a PC and don't foresee one in the near future. My black Argyle covers my formal needs nicely.

[Phil]

If I had the choice between wearing a PC to match the other 98% of guests, or wearing a black Argyll and still meeting the expected level of dress, guess which one I'd choose.

But sadly you would not be meeting the expected level of dress. Turning up to an event where a tuxedo is required in an Argyll is tantamount to arriving in a lounge suit. Whatever you have been led to believe, an Argyll jacket is daywear only. It is fine for daytime weddings or funerals and is the highlandwear dress of choice for church elders at Holy Communion. Arriving at a formal evening event in an Argyll marks the wearer out as a 'hayseed' as I believe your compatriots would say. It simply is inappropriate for the occasion and should not be worn. Doublets are a moveable feast and can be worn from formal with a bow tie to uber formal with lace jabot and cuffs. The exception might be the military or montrose doublet which, by historical association, is quite acceptable and is only worn with lace jabot.
How one dresses is, of course, a matter of personal choice. In a society unacustomed to kilt wearing I can quite imagine that 'anything goes' so carry on regardless. Elsewhere, however, you may find that different standards prevail.

[creagdhubh]

Here it comes, Kyle. You ready for it?

***!

I find it oddly humorous, and not a little ironic, that guys who wear kilts would intentionally want to look like everyone else. Highland attire, unlike Saxon attire, offers wonderful opportunities for individualism while still fitting in with the conventions or dress codes. Wearing a particular style of jacket solely for the purpose of looking like everyone else seems to be an attempt to inject Saxon dress mentality into an area where it doesn't belong.

If I had the choice between wearing a PC to match the other 98% of guests, or wearing a black Argyll and still meeting the expected level of dress, guess which one I'd choose.

Hahaha, cheers Tobus! I know, I know...I tend to "***" quite a bit, but hey, why not? Especially if I agree with a person's statement (I still can't believe there was actually a thread on here not too long ago in regards to the whole *** topic). On a side-note, this is why my in-laws adore me so much...because I am so agreeable! LOL!

Yours aye,