Dress codes and changing trends

[Nathan]

Is it really correct to wear a BBSBA to a black tie affair?

Since I didn't say anything about the office dinner dance, I'll just answer this one. The answer, in my view, is yes. I cite the following sources:

http://www.blacktieguide.com/Supplemental/Scottish.htm

post 21, 26 & 37 in the overdoing it thread
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...39/index4.html

Post 1 in the 1 kilt 10 looks thread
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...-attire-46888/

Page 60 - in the Third revised soft cover edition of So You're Going to Wear the Kilt by J. Charles Thompson in the chapter on jackets.

The Argyll is the least formal of the black tie options but is good for black tie just the same.

[Geoff Withnell]

Molach, I believe ,means "furry". What is a sporran moloch? Beyond a fur sporran, that is.

[creagdhubh]

Molach, I believe ,means "furry". What is a sporran moloch? Beyond a fur sporran, that is.

It's a term mainly used for a sporran made of horse or goat hair.

[OC Richard]

Molach, I believe ,means "furry".

Yes

molach adj rough, hairy

(Gaelic Dictionary by Malcolm MacLennan)

About the black Argyll, yes, the thing that strikes me when I look at The Highlanders Of Scotland and contemporary photos is the utter plainness of most of the jackets, often lacking one or more of the very things which define a 'kilt jacket' to us like special buttons, fancy cuffs, epaulettes, and perhaps Inverness skirts.

I finally got an old catalogue, Fraser Ross, which illustrates and describes the Dress Argyll. Note the white tie



Now, whenever I post a photo from an old catalogue somebody will say "but that's just an illustration in a catalogue. People didn't actually wear it." This is of course absurd, because the purpose of a catalogue is to sell things. Printing is expensive, catalogue space is valuable, and they're not going to take up space with items they don't sell a lot of. (It's like somebody in the future seeing our TV ads for cars and soap and medicines and thinking that none of these things were actually used.)

So for those doubters here are photos of the same thing, more or less



Now talk about your changing dress codes! Can you imagine somebody today showing up for an Evening function with all this weaponry? And us wringing our hands over sginean! Note his row of miniature medals, I wonder what for. Note that the jacket doesn't have metal buttons; they appear to be covered in matching cloth. Of great interest is the fact that he's moved his left hand during the long 1860s exposure time, blurring the plaid.

[Tobus]

Now talk about your changing dress codes! Can you imagine somebody today showing up for an Evening function with all this weaponry? And us wringing our hands over sginean! Note his row of miniature medals, I wonder what for. Note that the jacket doesn't have metal buttons; they appear to be covered in matching cloth. Of great interest is the fact that he's moved his left hand during the long 1860s exposure time, blurring the plaid.

Interesting photo! Actually, what's of greatest interest to me is the way he has arranged his plaid so that the front shows the tartan on the bias, or at a diagonal. Pretty much every full plaid I see worn in this manner is folded so you see the straight lines of the tartan, parallel and perpendicular to the folds. He has done something different in the way he folded the portion across his chest. I kind of like it!

[creagdhubh]

Interesting photo! Actually, what's of greatest interest to me is the way he has arranged his plaid so that the front shows the tartan on the bias, or at a diagonal. Pretty much every full plaid I see worn in this manner is folded so you see the straight lines of the tartan, parallel and perpendicular to the folds. He has done something different in the way he folded the portion across his chest. I kind of like it!

As do I, Tobus! Good eye, mate.

[OC Richard]

what's of greatest interest to me is the way he has arranged his plaid so that the front shows the tartan on the bias, or at a diagonal.

One sees that fairly often in vintage photos. I don't know how they did it! I'll poke around in the old photos and see if I can find more.

Here ya go, found it in a couple minutes. Note the elaborate stitching on the crossbelt



And more

[Nathan]

I finally got an old catalogue, Fraser Ross, which illustrates and describes the Dress Argyll. Note the white tie

Whenever I see these old photos and magazine illustrations of the Argyll as white tie evening wear, I have to point out that they aren't a depiction of a modern Argyll. The peaked or shawl silk-faced lapels elevate those Argylls significantly. Sure it shares many characteristics of the modern BBSBA but those differences are not to be overlooked. I would suggest that if you had an Argyll made in velvet or with satin or silk lapels today it would still qualify for the most formal of occasions but the standard issue can't be pushed much further than less formal black tie IMHO.

[creagdhubh]

Whenever I see these old photos and magazine illustrations of the Argyll as white tie evening wear, I have to point out that they aren't a depiction of a modern Argyll. The peaked or shawl silk-faced lapels elevate those Argylls significantly. Sure it shares many characteristics of the modern BBSBA but those differences are not to be overlooked. I would suggest that if you had an Argyll made in velvet or with satin or silk lapels today it would still qualify for the most formal of occasions but the standard issue can't be pushed much further than less formal black tie IMHO.

I agree. Personally, I would love to have an 'Argyll' style jacket made in the same manner as shown above. The peaked silk-faced lapels, elongated (Van Dyke) jacket pockets with braiding, and a trim, tailored cut. All smashing indeed--especially when paired with a 3-4 button waistcoat with lapels; quite appropriate for a white/black tie event.

[MacRobert's Reply]

Overall, that's a reasonable shot Calgacus.

For a bit more detail have a look at http://www.electricscotland.com/weddings/guide11.htm. This was written in the context of weddings and includes contributions from X Markers from both sides of the pond, albeit edited by me.

Black tie ranges from the Black Argyll, through the PC up to various doublets - not all black-tie events are equally formal. The PC even turns up at white-tie events, usually with a black bow tie but occasionally with a white tie and marcella waistcoat.

Are we bucking the trend to dress down? Probably, but we are not alone. There are wearers of Anglo-Saxon clothing who are also swimming against the tide. The plethora of PCs is, at least in part, to do with the hire shops promoting this jacket for all kinds of kilted events.

Highland Scots, in particular, often manage to combine sartorial conservatism with just a hint of the peacock display.

Rebellion against onesies? Oh yes!!