Can this kilt be lengthened ...?

[Tobus]

I would be very interested in figheadair's take on this, but yes. It has the characteristics of a selvedge mark as is sometimes done. Are you sure this is of Pakistani origin? Have you tested the material to see if it's acrylic, wool, PV, etc.?

Of course, it could just be a weaving error, but either way, my hunch is that the selvedge is under that blind hem stitching and you could proceed with your plan to let it out.

[ktk1961]

I would be very interested in figheadair's take on this, but yes. It has the characteristics of a selvedge mark as is sometimes done. Are you sure this is of Pakistani origin? Have you tested the material to see if it's acrylic, wool, PV, etc.?

Of course, it could just be a weaving error, but either way, my hunch is that the selvedge is under that blind hem stitching and you could proceed with your plan to let it out.

My assumption about Pakistani origin was based on the leather straps and the lion emblem on the back, which I had seen noted in another thread were the tell-tale signs ...

IMG_3262.jpg

IMG_3263.jpg

Although I'd be happy if it were actually made in Scotland. The listing in Ebay described it as wool, but I'm not sure how to "test it" to be sure ... I'll look for other posts that describe how to tell the difference ...

Thanks, Tobus!

[Tobus]

My assumption about Pakistani origin was based on the leather straps and the lion emblem on the back, which I had seen noted in another thread were the tell-tale signs ...

Well, I won't claim to know for sure one way or the other, but when I go to the Kilts4Less website and look at their ready-made kilts which have the same basket-weave style straps and leather tab with the rampant lion on it, they claim that these kilts are, "Made in Scotland by Glenisla – Scotland’s foremost quality kiltmaker". Interestingly, they say the material is 16oz heavyweight, but they don't actually say wool. At their price point, I would have my doubts about it being a 16oz wool kilt. And looking at your photos, the lay of the cloth doesn't appear to be like I'm used to seeing with 16oz wool tartan. My guess would be that it's synthetic of some sort, but it is indeed just a guess. The industry is rife with misleading terms like "acrylic wool", or even using the term wool to describe the feel of the cloth rather than the actual material.

To test, you will need to harvest a few stray yarns from somewhere inside the kilt that you could pull without damaging it or affecting the appearance. Take a bottlecap and pour a bit of bleach into it, then place a yarn in there. If it dissolves, it's wool. If not, then it's something else. Second test would be to take a lighter and singe the end of a yarn. If it turns to ash, it's wool. If it melts and curls up to a ball, it's PV or another synthetic. I'm told acrylic is highly flammable and will actually catch the flame like a candle wick, but I've never had the opportunity to test it.

At any rate, it is what it is, and the type of material likely has no bearing on what you intend to do here. I was only interested because the material type may help pin down where the material was woven and/or help explain the sett variation at the bottom.

Was this kilt sold as a new kilt or a pre-owned one? If pre-owned, I wonder if the kilt was hemmed that way in order to shorten it for a previous owner, or whether it was an attempt to hide the sett variation. Of course, if you let it out, there will be a visible oddity at the bottom of your kilt that doesn't match the rest of the tartan pattern. I would guess that 99.9% of people would never notice it. I'm sort of the odd 0.1% who would.

[ktk1961]

Well, I won't claim to know for sure one way or the other, but when I go to the Kilts4Less website and look at their ready-made kilts which have the same basket-weave style straps and leather tab with the rampant lion on it, they claim that these kilts are, "Made in Scotland by Glenisla – Scotland’s foremost quality kiltmaker". Interestingly, they say the material is 16oz heavyweight, but they don't actually say wool. At their price point, I would have my doubts about it being a 16oz wool kilt. And looking at your photos, the lay of the cloth doesn't appear to be like I'm used to seeing with 16oz wool tartan. My guess would be that it's synthetic of some sort, but it is indeed just a guess. The industry is rife with misleading terms like "acrylic wool", or even using the term wool to describe the feel of the cloth rather than the actual material.

To test, you will need to harvest a few stray yarns from somewhere inside the kilt that you could pull without damaging it or affecting the appearance. Take a bottlecap and pour a bit of bleach into it, then place a yarn in there. If it dissolves, it's wool. If not, then it's something else. Second test would be to take a lighter and singe the end of a yarn. If it turns to ash, it's wool. If it melts and curls up to a ball, it's PV or another synthetic. I'm told acrylic is highly flammable and will actually catch the flame like a candle wick, but I've never had the opportunity to test it.

At any rate, it is what it is, and the type of material likely has no bearing on what you intend to do here. I was only interested because the material type may help pin down where the material was woven and/or help explain the sett variation at the bottom.

Was this kilt sold as a new kilt or a pre-owned one? If pre-owned, I wonder if the kilt was hemmed that way in order to shorten it for a previous owner, or whether it was an attempt to hide the sett variation. Of course, if you let it out, there will be a visible oddity at the bottom of your kilt that doesn't match the rest of the tartan pattern. I would guess that 99.9% of people would never notice it. I'm sort of the odd 0.1% who would.

It was listed on Ebay as an "ex-hire" to which new straps had been added. It was also described as having been made in Scotland of wool. Of course, the label on the inside only says "Definitely Scottish" (whatever that means ...) and there is no mention of the material being wool or anything else. So, I presume this is not wool. Regardless, you are correct that letting down the hem will only make the difference in the sett to be visible (which would bother me, as well).

As you've said, "it is what it is." I'll live with it. I have a new 5-yard kilt on order from Rocky in the tartan from the county of origin of my mother's family in Ireland (County Meath). I'm sure the difference I'll see in quality will nudge me to eventually replace my first kilt with another in a Colquhoun Tartan. At that point, I would probably keep the PV in Ancient and consider having a new custom kilt made in the Reproduction.

For now, many thanks to you for going on this "journey" with me over the last few days and for your comprehensive and informative replies and probing questions.

Have a great day!

[figheadair]

Of course, it could just be a weaving error, but either way, my hunch is that the selvedge is under that blind hem stitching and you could proceed with your plan to let it out.[/QUOTE]

From the photos it does appear that the cloth has a selvedge. As has been noted, the sett at the selvedge is truncated with the black being narrower than it should be. I don’t believe that this was an intentional selvedge pattern (pattern, not mark) but a weaving error. That might account for the reason why the hem was added - to hid the error. It might look better if pressed hard but as viewed it looks bulky and ungainly.

IMG_3259.jpg

It the hem was unpicked and the cloth pressed out then the selvedge would look like the central section I've reconstructed in this image.

IMG_3259a.jpg

So, it looks like it would be possible to unpick and lengthen the material but it will result in a visual error in the cloth. Nothing wrong with that, especially if you are able to explain the anomaly if ask. Remember that it you do unpick the cloth then the kilt will be a little longer that currently and so you may wish to have it correspondingly shortened at the tip.

[ktk1961]

Of course, it could just be a weaving error, but either way, my hunch is that the selvedge is under that blind hem stitching and you could proceed with your plan to let it out.

From the photos it does appear that the cloth has a selvedge. As has been noted, the sett at the selvedge is truncated with the black being narrower than it should be. I don’t believe that this was an intentional selvedge pattern (pattern, not mark) but a weaving error. That might account for the reason why the hem was added - to hid the error. It might look better if pressed hard but as viewed it looks bulky and ungainly.

IMG_3259.jpg

It the hem was unpicked and the cloth pressed out then the selvedge would look like the central section I've reconstructed in this image.

IMG_3259a.jpg

So, it looks like it would be possible to unpick and lengthen the material but it will result in a visual error in the cloth. Nothing wrong with that, especially if you are able to explain the anomaly if ask. Remember that it you do unpick the cloth then the kilt will be a little longer that currently and so you may wish to have it correspondingly shortened at the tip.[/QUOTE]

Thanks very much for your reply and for your mock-up! I wish I had thought to do that ... ;-)

I think I'll combine your input with Tobus' and gently pick apart the hem for a few inches under the apron and explore a bit to see whether I want to do the entire kilt. I agree that removing the hem could help with more effective pressing, as well (at least, I think that's what you were implying).

[Pleater]

I think that twice in the last half century I have resorted to felt tip pens or markers to disguise a fault - and I was not found out in either case....
One garment I wear myself and the other was a commission.

Anne the Pleater

[ktk1961]

Kilt edge.jpg

Well, I picked at the hem today to do a little investigating. I picked enough for the front apron to be let down so I could press it and see what it looked like ...

As you can see, Tobus' mock-up was right on the money. And figheadair was right, as well. There WAS a "partial" selvedge around the bottom of the kilt ... I say "partial" because in several places that I revealed in letting down the hem, the selvedge was in fact cut somehow and the fabric was fraying.

While I appreciated the chance to gain another .75" in length (it was advertised as 24" but is actually 23.5"), I am unwilling to look at the fabric error every time I put on and wear the kilt. So ... I'm going to take it back to my tailor and have him fix what I've done and leave well enough alone.

Clearly, I've been "had." Kilts4Less advertised the kilt on Ebay as wool (it's not ... I did the bleach AND burn tests and it failed both), 24" long (it's 0.5" shorter) and made in Scotland (highly unlikely). It's true that "you get what you pay for" and I MIGHT have bought it anyway if I'd known the truth. But, I don't appreciate being misled.

The whole experience has left a bad taste in my mouth ... after having it repaired I might very well sell it (with an HONEST listing on Ebay) and move on. Thankfully, I have a new 5-yard wool kilt on order from USA Today, but it's in County Meath tartan in honor of my mother's Irish heritage. So, I might just have to dive in deep and order a Colquhoun Reproduction kilt (I can't stop thinking about it after seeing pictures of yours, Tobus) ... although I'm feeling very deflated today after also learning that Chicago Scots has cancelled their Highland Games for the second straight year due to the pandemic (they were scheduled for mid-June). I have never been to any Highland Games and had been looking forward to attending my first in my clan's tartan with my family this summer ... Knowing that they've been cancelled has taken some of the joy out of this process for me ... at least for now.

Hopefully I'll feel better about it in the morning ... sorry to be such a downer today, lads. Thanks for listening ... and for the advice you've offered so generously on this thread.

[KennethSime]

Clearly, I've been "had." Kilts4Less advertised the kilt on Ebay as wool (it's not ... I did the bleach AND burn tests and it failed both), 24" long (it's 0.5" shorter) and made in Scotland (highly unlikely). It's true that "you get what you pay for" and I MIGHT have bought it anyway if I'd known the truth. But, I don't appreciate being misled.

FWIW, I've heard that their customer service is pretty good. It might be worth an email at least, let them know that the kilt was not satisfactory and not as-advertised. They may ask you to send it back, or they may just issue a refund.

I'll think you'll be plenty happy with the 5-yard from USAK. I wear my 5-yard quite a bit, and it's a good balance of having "enough" wool to swing well without being too bulky. Meath is a great tartan, also.

[ktk1961]

FWIW, I've heard that their customer service is pretty good. It might be worth an email at least, let them know that the kilt was not satisfactory and not as-advertised. They may ask you to send it back, or they may just issue a refund.

I'll think you'll be plenty happy with the 5-yard from USAK. I wear my 5-yard quite a bit, and it's a good balance of having "enough" wool to swing well without being too bulky. Meath is a great tartan, also.

Thanks for the suggestion, Kenneth. As (bad) luck would have it ... the 60-day deadline for notice of intent to return was YESTERDAY! If I had only emailed them yesterday, I would have made the deadline. UGH!

I did send an email via Ebay this morning letting them know I'm disappointed but acknowledging that I've missed the deadline for notification. Will see how they respond ... Ultimately (after having slept on it), I'll probably just let it go, have it fixed and wear it from time to time while waiting to order my Colquhoun Reproduction!

I'm also looking forward to the USAK 5-yard kilt in Meath. I agree the tartan is beautiful ... at east online! I haven't seen it in-person yet. The picture on the USAK website looks computer-generated rather than actual fabric ...

Screen Shot 2021-02-07 at 11.06.51 AM.jpg

I'm hoping it looks close to this picture I found online of actual wool fabric ...

Meath.jpg

How do you know the Meath tartan? Do you also have family connections to County Meath?

Best,
Kevin