Correct shirt for semi-formal (aka, back tie)?

[OC Richard]

This post above from TheVintageLibertine and others like OCR confirms what I have been thinking for quite some time now, the examples that are shown in his post and elsewhere are very nearly 100 years old now and some examples are even older. Surely it's not beyond the wit of today's kilt attire wearers to "adjust" their attire to fit today's attire requirements? To my eye this rather theatrical overdressing for modern viewing that is rather slavishly followed by some is not, in my view, relevant to today's needs.

Fair enough Jock!

In truth I'm often quoting these old sources to try to get people to NOT overdress, emphasising that by 1920 dirks and plaids and all the other Victorian accessories were passe.

On a recent thread I went into the previous period, the Edwardian era, because the poster had specifically asked for that period.

So bringing things up to date, earlier this month (hard to get more recent than that) here's my attire at a Holiday Brass concert.

The shirt has ordinary fall collar, pleated front, and French cuffs (not that they can be seen).

Along with other "traditional kilt wearers" I'm sticking with long-established custom and wearing patterned hose and buckled shoes in Evening Dress.

As you see I'm accessory-free: no plaid, brooch, dirk, sgian, kilt-pin, lapel-pins, hat, etc in accordance with the fashion that emerged following World War One.

[Jock Scot]

A very nice picture OCR, but in my mind I would ditch the hose , footwear and the sporran as well. Please remember this is yet another example of band attire excess which the average kilt wearer are does not require.

[OC Richard]

The kilt attire hire companies are and have in fact been doing so for quite some time with their use of those awful ghillie brogues, meagre fly plaid and dreadful white hose "look"...

I'm fully with you and try my best to steer gents away from that "look".

However much I dislike the look of Ghillie Brogues with Evening Dress the fact remains that by the 1920s they had become accepted as appropriate for that.

(Note the mix of white and black ties amongst the Highland gents.)



The Army, so often a bastion of tradition, never adopted Ghillies for any form of dress, using Buckle Brogues for Mess Dress and Levee Dress.

[Jock Scot]

I'm fully with you and try my best to steer gents away from that "look".

However much I dislike the look of Ghillie Brogues with Evening Dress the fact remains that by the 1920s they had become accepted as appropriate for that.

(Note the mix of white and black ties amongst the Highland gents.)



The Army, so often a bastion of tradition, never adopted Ghillies for any form of dress, using Buckle Brogues for Mess Dress and Levee Dress.

You picture clearly illustrates a generational difference and I think it is the then Prince of Wales(second from the left) illustrates a change of style. We must also remember that the Military and to a certain extent band members have strict dress codes that do not necessarily apply to civilians. My point is, perhaps it's time for another change of emphasis in style? Is it already happening?

[figheadair]

the then Prince of Wales(second from the left)

Wrong brother Jock. It's the Duke of York rather than the future Edward VIII.

[Jock Scot]

Wrong brother Jock. It's the Duke of York rather than the future Edward VIII.

Ah brothers! They do have a habit looking similar. In my family too! Thank you.

[OC Richard]

Your picture clearly illustrates a generational difference....a change of style.

Exactly, it's interesting to see the left-hand gent wearing the full list of stuff that Andersons' article specifies for "weddings and court".

But the other gents not. However one is wearing the plaid and dirk as specified by Loudon MacQueen Douglas in 1914 for Evening.

We must also remember that the Military and to a certain extent band members have strict dress codes that do not necessarily apply to civilians.

Military has regulations of course.

Civilian pipe bands have none. The only thing required by the RSPBA is "matching dress" and some pipe bands compete in matching black trousers and matching white shirts.

A pipe band from Texas could show up at any contest in Scotland wearing matching blue jeans, Western shirts, and cowboy hats and perfectly conform to the rules.

My point is, perhaps it's time for another change of emphasis in style? Is it already happening?

Sadly yes, though both the Pipe Band world and the hand-in-glove Kilt Hire world have abandoned the nasty white hose years ago.

What passes for Evening Dress nowadays is generally black, Lovat, claret, etc hose, Ghillies, and "semi dress" sporrans with the ubiquitous Prince Charlie. I won't do it.

[TheVintageLibertine]

I’m defiantly onboard with minimalist formal wear:

imagejpeg_0.jpeg

The same goes for wearing a kilt casually:

IMG_4543.jpg

[Jock Scot]

I’m defiantly onboard with minimalist formal wear:

imagejpeg_0.jpeg

The same goes for wearing a kilt casually:

IMG_4543.jpg

Although your casual approach is probably more weather dependent. On a second look with the top picture, I might want to ditch the sporran and the shoes for something more modest. Except for the most formal of events.

[TheVintageLibertine]

Although your casual approach is probably more weather dependent. On a second look with the top picture, I might want to ditch the sporran and the shoes for something more modest. Except for the most formal of events.

The top picture was a Burns Supper hosted by the San Francisco Scottish Rite. Since the dress code was black tie, I opted for buckle brogues and a white sporran. The next time I’m in the UK I really want to get a seal skin sporran.