tartans more easily accepted than non-tartan?

**Graham** · 4th January 05, 05:05 AM

Interesting topic.

I believe that the area one lives in may determine one's choice and comfort level when it comes to tartan vs. plain.

Our area is very conservative, I choose to wear only tartans for reasons Alan has mentioned, but also because I really love tartans and respect and love what they stand for. They are a symbol of celtic culture and I support that.

It's not a case of wearing a kilt for others, and not myself, but I do see myself as one who is seeking to influence others, inform and promote the wearing of kilts. So, as any teacher or instructor knows....one step at a time, begin with the familiar and easy to accept, then move on from there.

I like plain kilts, and will buy one one day, but not yet.

**philibeg** · 4th January 05, 05:42 AM

With the greatest possible respect for all the various points of view on this rather emotional topic, I would like to point out that tartans only became associated with particular clans at the beginning of the 19th century. Before that highland Scots wore tartan, whichever one they could get their hands on, and often even different tartans all at once. I am a great lover of tradition, don't get me wrong! But we needn't be too fussy when it comes to tartans, since their use as emblems for particular families is an invention of the Scottish wool merchants in order to stimulate national pride after the ban on tartans was lifted at the end of the 18th century....

**macwilkin** · 4th January 05, 06:55 AM

With the greatest possible respect for all the various points of view on this rather emotional topic, I would like to point out that tartans only became associated with particular clans at the beginning of the 19th century. Before that highland Scots wore tartan, whichever one they could get their hands on, and often even different tartans all at once. I am a great lover of tradition, don't get me wrong! But we needn't be too fussy when it comes to tartans, since their use as emblems for particular families is an invention of the Scottish wool merchants in order to stimulate national pride after the ban on tartans was lifted at the end of the 18th century....

Very well put, sir! This is exactly why I am such a promoter of the district tartan, since it is an "older" tradition than the clan or family tartan.

Don't get me wrong; I am all for the clan and/or family tartan, but I have run into several folks in the Scottish-American community who sincerely believe that the custom is an "ancient" one, which as you quite correctly pointed out, is not. I am proud of my clan tartans, but one must know the history behind them -- KNOW YOUR TARTAN is my mantra! :mrgreen:

Cheers,

T.

**phil h** · 4th January 05, 07:42 AM

I agree, I only wear a tartan kilt to work, one customer asked a co-worker,"when did you start to hire crossdressers"? so if they think a tartan kilt is cross dressing, what would they think of my leather kilt

just saves a bit of hassle.

another point is there is not an official tartan authority so wear what you want.as long as you can get it.

**James** · 4th January 05, 08:36 AM

Whilst it is a continuing argument about when clan tartans first evolved,two hundred years is a long time. Certainly there is evidence that the association between specific tartans and their associated clans existed prior to proscription. In any event long enough for some people to develop strong feelings about 'their clan tartan', and their feelings are as worthy of respect as those who would wish to wear any tartan.

So I would suggest that some modicum of respect for the association between a tartan and a clan be maintained.

To turn this on it's head - I'd certainly not wear say the USMC or an American State tartan, for however much I might like the tartan, I'd regard such an action on my part as most impolite.

Sorry to be contentious, but it is sadly a contentious problem.

James

**macwilkin** · 4th January 05, 08:43 AM

Whilst it is a continuing argument about when clan tartans first evolved,two hundred years is a long time. Certainly there is evidence that the association between specific tartans and their associated clans existed prior to proscription. In any event long enough for some people to develop strong feelings about 'their clan tartan', and their feelings are as worthy of respect as those who would wish to wear any tartan.

So I would suggest that some modicum of respect for the association between a tartan and a clan be maintained.

Agree with you 100% James -- I'm just weary of those who speak of the "ancientness" of their tartan and base that on myth and bad history. But, since I make my living in history and information gathering (Library Science), perhaps I'm a wee bit biased! :mrgreen:

I do agree that the association of clan & tartan should be respected and honoured, regardless of the age of the tartan.

As far as American state, Canadian provincial, etc. tartans, I would say that they are more "open" than a military tartan like the USMC, which should only be worn by those who served with the USMC, or in certain cases, a relative or descedant of someone who served.

State Tartans by default are "open" tartans to anyone of any heritage living in that state, district, province, etc., or even to those who have visited said state, etc. and admired it.

Cheers,

T.

**Casey** · 4th January 05, 09:02 AM

I do like that word "modicum".

I has struck me, on the several occasions that tartan registery has come up, for discussion, that I have a vision of a respect for the modern tartan and what it is associated with, but at the same time, as we do so often on the forum, we should be encouraging the evolution and just plain wearing the kilt.

It's just such fun.

Casey

**philibeg** · 4th January 05, 09:45 AM

I agree that nationalistic feelings should be respected, which is why I try to wear the kilt in a becoming manner, and not just as a mix-n-match fashion fad. However, its easy to out-Scot the Scots themselves as far as tartans go. I know Scots who have multiple kilts and gladly wear one another's tartans (Hamish wrote about this as well) and have been told by Scots in the know that clan tartans are a touchy subject only at a clan gathering, which is a context in which I wholly agree great care should be taken not to offend clan sensibilities.

Those who feel awe for tradition (and yes, the 19th century was long enough ago to justify using that term in relation to clan tartans)should follow their instincts and wear non clan-tartan kilts. Those who feel less restricted by tradition can wear what they like, but its classier if they know and respect the feelings and history behind highland dress.

We must all follow our own inner light, don't ye think?

**macwilkin** · 4th January 05, 10:07 AM

Again, well put sir!

Cheers,

T.

**Raphael** · 4th January 05, 10:17 AM

If we freed ourselves from restrictions of wearing 2 legged garments, why adopt a new one?

Just know your Tartan and brief history of it. I don't think People will get offended because you picked the tartan based on the fact that you like the colours and what they represent, or will they?

Although I think we should be free to wear the USMC Tartan, if we choose to support them. This could be another way to pay tribute to the women and men who served and are currently serving.

Just simply respect the kilt.