Are Sashes for Men or Not???

[macwilkin]

Sir Roberts quote "therse no right or wrong way to wear highland dress" Im afraid its not 100% accurate, Highland dress is a very important part of Scots/Irish/Welsh/ Celtic culture and as such deserves a bit of thought and reverence as some people might be offended by someone not paying proper attention to detail, In Scotland you would not see someone wearing a "sash" a fly plaid is sometimes worn by Grooms and pipers have one that wraps around and hangs like a fly plaid, please forget about sashes , a well fitting kilt matching hose and shoes nd a Jacobite shirt or argyll jacket is plenty, you start adding all sorts of brigadoonary and you risk being branded a bounder!!

Well said, Daz. Whilst there are no "rules", as many have mentioned, there are customs, traditions and precedent for wearing traditional Highland attire. Besides Jimmy's mantra of "know your tartan", it's good to also know these customs and traditions when questions arise from the kilted gentry and non kilt-wearers alike.

Someone mentioned the "mini fly plaid", which is a completely different creature than a sash.

Cheers,

Todd

[jkdesq]

Someone mentioned the "mini fly plaid", which is a completely different creature than a sash.

Guess that would be me who mentioned the "mini fly plaid". Now, I totally agree with the "less is more" school and would concurr that fly plaids are best left to pipers and, maybe, bridegrooms. Also, I totally agree that of all the "novo" kilts out there, sportkilt is the last one I would suggest to anyone looking for a kilt, unless it was for a lark (ie. group going golfing or something) or very, very casual use (ie. changing out of athletic wear when no change room is available or sitting about the house).

I take issue with our friend's statement that a "mini fly plaid" is a "completely different creature than a sash". www.scotyard.com says that their "mini fly plaid" is 12" x 54". Sportkilt has not given the dimensions to its "sash" but the floral sash that I bought for my wife from Burnett-Struth was, low and behold, 12" X 54". I think it would be difficult for anyone to UNDERSTATE the physical difference between a "mini fly plaid" and a sash.

My point in my impugned post above (last post on page 4) was that we should not over-emphasis on what things are called. Our friend who started this thread was concerned that he should not use his piece of fabric (I would guess approximately 12" x 54"), because sportkilt opted to call it a "sash". Whether called "sash" or "plaid", there is a "highland dress tradition" that would allow our friend to wear this piece of tartan over his shoulder. Further, he need not fear being thought of as a "highland dame" merely because he has this fabric, called a "sash" by Sportkilt, on his person.

A kilt by any other name (ie. skirt) is still a pleated unbiforcated garment.

[Doc Hudson]

For any who've lost their sense of humor, sorry about that. I hope you find it soon.

And if in addition to "staying on topic" and "not being cross-grained and arguementative" becomes a rule of the house, I'll be bidding ye a good day.

Tis a mighty poor discussion that can't manage to raise a material objection other than "it don't look right," when someone dares oppose the general consensus.

Adieu!

[Colin]

For any who've lost their sense of humor, sorry about that. I hope you find it soon.

As I have told my sister on many occasions, if you have to explain the joke or the humour, it just wasn't that witty or funny

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Doc,

CAN a man wear a tartan sash? Well, yes. But a man can also wear a tu-tu and fish net stockings.

MAY a man wear a tartan sash? Well, yes again. No one needs my permission, or anyone elses' permission, to wear anything they want. I would never deign to tell a man what he may or may not wear.

But neither of these are the question being asked. What Ron is getting at is, in the context of Scottish attire, is the tartan sash meant for men or women. And the answer is women. The tartan sash is considered a part of lady's wear in the context of modern day Highland Dress, and to argue otherwise is pointless.

I've seen men wear a lady's tartan sash with their kilts, in an attempt to achieve the look of a fly plaid or even a drummer's plaid without investing the money in the real item. And to be honest, it just doesn't work. They simply look like they are wearing a lady's sash with their kilt.

I've also seen men at the Games wearing just a tartan sash with their Saxon clothing. (By which I mean normal pants and shirt). Usually these are people who are newly aware of their Scottish heritage, are enamoured of the atmosphere of the Games, and want something in their tartan to display. They don't want to drop $500 for a kilt that they have to wait 2 months on, so they spend $50 and get a sash that they can wear right then and there. Now, if any of these men were to actually get into wearing Highland Dress, I'd advise them to give the sash to their wives, or use it in their home as a table runner. But for a one-time fix there at the Games, I'm not going to call them on it.

Aye,
Matt

[Raphael]

Has anyone written to SportKilts and informed them that sash is for women and not for men?

[Planopiper]

The tartan sash has never been a part of highland dress. It's a poor man's attempt at the look of a great kilt, or possibly a piper's plaid. People who don't have a lot of experience with highland dress have a vague memory of something tartan accross the chest. I remember thinking the same thing. You see a lot of these at ren faires. Usually w/ kilts made out of plaid curtain material. I'm not even sure I've seen women wear them very often. I'm used to seeing the sash that starts as a rosette on the front of the shoulder then goes over the shoulder and down the back. My wife makes those for women. Sport Kilt seems to be in the business of selling stuff that looks kind of like real highland dress. And whatever else will sell. Most of the kilts in the pictures on their "Wall of Fame" look like pretty poor fitting garments. Too long, worn too low on the waist, pleats not falling very neatly, apron edges in the wrong places. I understand that they are a cheaper version of a traditional kilt, but they look cheap and sloppy to me.

[Burnout]

Has anyone written to SportKilts and informed them that sash is for women and not for men?

Sportkilts advice seems as questionable as their kilts. Bottom line - I don't think they particularly care what advice they dispense... as long as they move product.

[Riverkilt]

Wow!!...Okay...Uhmmmmm....gee...

Not sure what just happened here...

Back before I knew what I was doing I'd go to the Ren Faire with a Macdonald tartan scarf (jeez, think it was that girlie girl dress tartan too) fashioned into a sort of sash with old pants and an old shirt...just wanted to be a Scot in some way.

While I was jonesing that 12 weeks for my first UK I medicated the jones by buying more kilts...which is how I came to by a Macdonald tartan SportKilt. The sash seemed a good idea to me at the time.

Only they shipped a 60 some inch sash, in the same Macdonald tartan,which barely went around me - That, I did wear as a scarf last Winter.

SportKilt did send me a replacement sash the full size 14" by 90" which I have yet to wear and now, at the risk of my masculinity may try to convert to a short sarong or something.

Not sure where the leather kilt emerged on this kilt, had mentioned it on another post. Just wanted to clarify about the tartan sash with this post.

Now I'm wondering what a "plaid" is in the sense its used here. Are those the pieces of tartan cloth that seem to be pinned to the shoulder?

Glad we have all that settled....I think....

Appreciate all the input.

Ron

[James]

The sash as such has never been a part of Highland wear-apart that is from when one is worn around the waist under the sword belt.

Rather it was and is worn by women-possibly to show their own clan affiliation, or that of their partner: for it was the way they could display the appropriate tartan. Too depending upon which shoulder it is worn over-it can also indicate their clan rank.

The wearing of sashes with uniform - or as with some organisations to show 'being on duty', display emblems etc is something entirely different.

James