The OUTRAGEOUS Price of kilts!

[Freedomlover]

Yep. Lot's of work. But different folks have vastly different time requirements. A year or so ago I was cruising around the site of one of the bigger kiltmakers in Scotland (s***y, I don't recall which one), and he said that he turned out two handsewn finished kilts a day, and if pressed could do three. I think that if a maker was actually investing 25-30 hours, plus hundreds for material, he/she would quickly give it up as uneconomic even at $600 each.

[andyfg]

Alan, well said. A very good analysis.

[Alan H]

Yep. Lot's of work. But different folks have vastly different time requirements. A year or so ago I was cruising around the site of one of the bigger kiltmakers in Scotland (s***y, I don't recall which one), and he said that he turned out two handsewn finished kilts a day, and if pressed could do three. I think that if a maker was actually investing 25-30 hours, plus hundreds for material, he/she would quickly give it up as uneconomic even at $600 each.

Interesting. I have to wonder if he was teasing you or pulling your leg or there was a miscommunication or something. Barb has said that that it takes her about 20 hours to do a kilt. I believe Matt has said the same.

Bear once wrote on this board that it took him an 8-hour day plus a little more to crank out a fully machine-sewn, PV four-yard Bear Kilt.

How a custom kiltmaker could turn out three hand-sewn kilts in an 8-9 hour workday is beyond me. I could see two machine-sewn solid-color kilts, maybe. O'Neill on this board has said he can crank out a machine-sewn kilt in 4-5 hours, which boggles my mind...but OK. That's mighty darned fast, but *hey* it's within the realm of possibility. But that's machine sewn.

Three hand-sewn, wool, eight-yard kilts in one 8-9 hour work day? Three hours to make a kilt from selecting the fabric to finishing the buckles, hand-sewn? I have my doubts.

I don't doubt that that's what you heard...that's what the guy said, but I bet that something else was going on, here.

[Splash_4]

Folks, this has to be one of the most informative threads on this board in sometime. Well done Alan and each of you for keeping it informed and not degenerating into a flame war! I have learned tons here, Thanks all!

[A Hay]

I think Alan is very gifted in his ability to analyze and work with numbers. As an Engineer, it is something I can relate to.

He got me to thinking about the sporrans I have made. It is a hobby for me right now, so I'm not looking to make a lot of money. I do it for fun. And I'm not trying to drum up business. As a matter of fact I'm taking the summer off.

However, I thought there might be some other DYI's out there who might be interested. I know there is a 19% VAT on the materials I buy also.

I've itemized my costs and time below. It doesn't come out right when I go from preview to actual view so I've marked direct costs with an * and hours with a #. It's summarized at the end.

Sporran Costs
Item Direct Cost Hours
(euros)

Travel to Purchase Materials
Train Ticket divided by 5 sporrans 4*
Travel time, 8 hrs divided by 5 sporrans 1.6#
Lunch, 12 euro divided by 5 sporrans 2.4 *

Material Costs
Leather-80 euro per sheet, 5 sporrans /sheet 16*
Lacing 8*
Leather Dye 3.5*
Leather finish 3.5*
Rivets 0.5*
Heavy Thread 0.5*
Gusset Leather 5*
Magnetic Closure 3*
D rings 0.4*
Sponges 0.25*

Tool Depreciation 2*

Mailing
Postage 8*
Mailing envelope 1.5 *

Assembly
Tracing Outline Pattern 0.25#
Cutting Out Pieces 0.4#
Tracing front flap pattern 0.4#
Cutting front flap pattern 0.6#
Stamping front flap pattern 2#
Cutting other pieces 0.5#
Dying pieces 0.5#
Punching sewing holes 0.5#
Sewing front panel to gusset 1#
Punching lacing holes 0.6#
Lacing 1.3#
Painting design if required 2#
Applying finishes 0.5#
Clean-up 0.5#

Shipping
Preparing for shipping 0.4#
Drive to Post Office 0.6#
Gas Costs 3*

Total euro cost for materials and expense 61.55*
Total Labor Hours 13.65#
Conversion to US $ at 1 euro = 1.38 USD $84.94
Total Labor costs @ $10/hr $136.5

This was purely an intellectual exercise and is not intended to relate to what I actually charge nor am I suggesting what anyone else should charge.

Sporrans, like kilts, are available in a wide variety of styles, materials, and quality.
In a free marketplace, purchases are the coming together of a willing seller and a willing buyer.

I guess I'll have to keep working to support my hobby!

Cheers,
Tom

[Riverkilt]

Well said Alan,

And we're going to spread the cost of a hand sewn kilt out over how many generations?

I just had an email from Kathy Lare a few weeks ago. She had to raise her prices to stay in business. Postage costs, the exchange rate, were changing but her prices weren't. She did a double check with other members of the Kiltmaker's Guild in Scotland and found out she was charging less for her hand sewn kilts than any other kiltmaker in the guild. A wake up call for sure.

She even said some prospects questioned how her hand sewn kilts could be of quality since they priced so much less than other kiltmakers.

Knowing Kathy as a craftsperson, and not someone in the kiltmaking business for the money, raising her prices was a sad - but necessary - response to the current economy.

I will happily pay her the new increased, but fair prices, in exchange for her craftsmanship.

You can have any two of price, quality, and service. I choose the two later thank you.

Ron

[Archangel]

I just had occasion to handle the first kilt I bought. It was made for me in Scotland while I was there and mailed to me here 35 years ago, whoa. It's heavy, from mills that don't exist anymore. I only wore it on special events, like getting married, and I've outgrown it. I took it to Burnett's and Struth to see what it would take to get it made bigger. It would take some money and I have to lose 3-4 inches.

The quality is still there. The wool is still good. I don't have too many other possessions that have lasted that long or are worth putting more money and time into.

I have my army surplus kilt, which did service before coming to me. It still serves for walking on the beach by day and formal dining by night. The quality is still there. It cost me less than the first one so I feel freer with it.

I would not complain about a kiltmaker's rate, only the quality I would get for that money.

By the way, quick plug, you should see the energy Rob of R-kilts puts into his booths at the events. I've seen him a number of times and talked with him. I wear a sporran made by him. The service he gives is incredible and you just can't buy that either. I don't remember if Alan mentioned the time at events as part of the job.

[Alan H]

Mind you, there's a place for the $70-$100 kilt. You bet! I have a Stillwater Standard and I also have two $100 kilts. The notion of wearing a $100 garment to work out in kind of boggles my mind, but there you go. I go sweat, work out and throw heavy stuff in my USA Kilts Casual model. I'dnot wear my 6-yard painfully-made-by-me X-marks tartan kilt out to roll around in the grass, in!

It's just that the economics of custom kiltmaking are pretty brutal and it's not right to judge the pricing on a custom hand-sewn kilt made out of 100% worsted wool by a yardstick that's set by the pricing mode of a $75 Pakistani, acrylic kit.

[Riverkilt]

Solid point Archangel,

Not just the time at events, the cost of traveling to and from them, the significant cost of renting booth space from the organizers, and the time away from sewing.

I also remember when I was having trouble getting the RAF tartan fabric, Kathy Lare took over the task for me, made some overseas phone calls (not cheap), and got the fabric in for me.

And, that's another service hand sewn kiltmaker's provide. Researching, finding the options, and then ordering in the fabric for the tartan their customer wants.

Ron

[CameronTaylor]

By far one of the best reads on this board in a while, Thanks big A.


CT - wondering which bank to rob to get a machine sewed Cali from AH