Kilt Go Braugh? A cultural/historical question

[Macman]

Another way to state this may be, "What thoughts do you personally have when you don your kilt on March 17th?"

I guess I would never think of wearing a kilt on March 17. Here, I'd get looked at more oddly than usual if I did, because here there's a distinction between Irish and Scottish. If I wore a kilt on St. Patrick's Day, most people would think I was really mixed up. I'm not saying anyone shouldn't, but just that's what it's like where I am.

[auld argonian]

I'm grateful to mfarkus for that great capsule history...and glad that it's being allowed to continue. Religion is tied up in most history...that's just the way it is and it's historical fact and context...no way around it. Discuss it but don't get screwy about it.

But, again, a great summary...I'm going to print it out and give it to my daughter to save in her history book (with your kind permission, please, mfarkus?).

Best

AA

[highlander_Daz]

Your falling in the trap of assuming that Scotland has "one attitude fits all" whereas there tends to different attitudes in different areas, if you take Glasgow as an example, many many people there feel more Irish than Scots, a lot of this is to do with football and "other factors" that I am tring to avoid mentioning, a lot of this is due to the mass Irish migration to Glasgow to work in the shipyards, Billy Connollys ancestors were Irish, I think his grandfather was called Kinnealey and anglicised as Connelly. indeed along the west coast there is considerable "Irish" connections, as there is in Liverpool and Birmingham. along the east coast there is much less of this and you will see football rivalry is still present but much less "intense" as I say the issues between Celtic and Rangers is a factor in the Irish links. as Celtic FC was founded by an Irish priest in 1888 for Irish immigrants, it attracts people who identify with Ireland/ Irish culture.

as you head north, attitudes change somewhat there is less identification with Irish culture and more with traditional Scots culture.

As far as the relationship with England goes, nearly everyone i know has connections with England, either through a relitive that lives/ or was born there or through professional connections, there is a perception abroad that the English hate the Scots and VV however its not really the case, there is in matters of sport a lot of rivalry, however Scots like Andy Murray, David Couthard, the late Colin McRae, have massive support south of the Border, and many English premiership teams are popular in Scotland. indeed a large percentage of people in England and Scotland are unaware of specifics in terms of the union, independance issues, etc.

[McFarkus]

Your falling in the trap of assuming that Scotland has "one attitude fits all" whereas there tends to different attitudes in different areas, if you take Glasgow as an example, many many people there feel more Irish than Scots, a lot of this is to do with football and "other factors" that I am tring to avoid mentioning, a lot of this is due to the mass Irish migration to Glasgow to work in the shipyards, Billy Connollys ancestors were Irish, I think his grandfather was called Kinnealey and anglicised as Connelly. indeed along the west coast there is considerable "Irish" connections, as there is in Liverpool and Birmingham. along the east coast there is much less of this and you will see football rivalry is still present but much less "intense" as I say the issues between Celtic and Rangers is a factor in the Irish links. as Celtic FC was founded by an Irish priest in 1888 for Irish immigrants, it attracts people who identify with Ireland/ Irish culture.

I appreciate your addition to the discussion. My brief history kind of tapered off after the Jacobite rebellions which is when my most recent Scots ancestors emigrated to the American Colonies. It helps me to know more about the modern situation in Ireland and Scotland

[wscottmac]

assuming that Scotland has "one attitude fits all" whereas there tends to different attitudes in different areas,

Daz - Thanks. That's the kind of stuff I was looking for. I had forgotten about the Celtic/Park Rangers deal, and how there were so many Celtic fans in the west of Scotland. Great insight. I appreciate you writing that out for our collective benefit.

[McFarkus]

But, again, a great summary...I'm going to print it out and give it to my daughter to save in her history book (with your kind permission, please, mfarkus?). AA

I'm delighted that you found it helpful. Please feel free to use it.

[Casper]

I guess I would never think of wearing a kilt on March 17. Here, I'd get looked at more oddly than usual if I did, because here there's a distinction between Irish and Scottish. If I wore a kilt on St. Patrick's Day, most people would think I was really mixed up. I'm not saying anyone shouldn't, but just that's what it's like where I am.

Agreed. The uneducated masses would think nothing of it, as still many people think that kilts are also an Irish tradition that was passed to the Scots (no proof of this, however, bagpipes apparently were passed from one to the other). However, you'll get the traditionalists who will think of you as nothing more than a 'Plastic Paddy' with no clue about the culture (always a major beef of the native Irish... the fervor with which North Americans celebrate their holiday).

For me, its slightly different. My family came to Canada from Northern Ireland. Protestant Ulster-Scots from Co. Antrim. Although most of these people would consider themselves either British or simply Irish, there is a growing association in NI that recognizes the unique history of the lowland Scots that settled the Ulster plantations starting in the 1600's. Effectivley, they're originally Scots with 300 years of interbreeding with the Irish. Irish roots, Scottish name... I choose to celebrate both. If people REALLY wanna beef about it, my paternal grandmother was a Davis (sept of Davidson) to boot (I just don't really relate to that side of my family).

For St. Pat's, I don't don my kilt. I do, however, wear my Northern Ireland national football jersey...

As for the holiday itself, it is openly celebrated all over the island, both countries, by both catholic and protestant. Its the only time of the year that you'll see St. Patrick's cross flown (as the Irish don't identify with a flag that was assigned to them by the British, and incorporated into the Union Jack) as it represents the Saint that brought Christianity to the island, not just Catholicism.

..Billy Connollys ancestors were Irish, I think his grandfather was called Kinnealey and anglicised as Connelly.

Same for Sir Sean Connery, if I recall....

[PiobBear]

I wear a kilt (saffron) every St. Patrick’s Day, but then I’m a piper; it’s required (I would even if I wasn’t; it’s an Irish kilt). My repertoire for the day is exclusively Irish (requests excepted); contrary to popular belief not all pipe music is Scottish. Many of my friends are of Scottish ancestry and they all turn out in their kilts too, as they do to any affair that’s even vaguely Celtic in nature, just as I and a couple of other friends do (in their County Mayo and All Ireland Green kilts) to “their” celebrations of Scottish culture, or as we all would if we knew of any Welsh or Manx cultural events; we’re kind of mutually supporting that way.
Speaking for myself, St. Patrick’s Day is a time to celebrate Irish history and culture and its myriad contributions to American society. While I’d never be mistaken for an ascetic (I like good music, dancing, craic and Guinness as much as anyone), St. Patrick’s Day is not an excuse to get snot-slinging, commode-hugging drunk, and I really don’t care for the fluorescent green Afro wigs, light-up shamrock deely-bobbers, mardi-gras beads and green beer that's come to be associated with St. Patrick's Day in the United States.

[Warhoover]

St. Patrick’s Day is not an excuse to get snot-slinging, commode-hugging drunk, and I really don’t care for the fluorescent green Afro wigs, light-up shamrock deely-bobbers, mardi-gras beads and green beer that's come to be associated with St. Patrick's Day in the United States.

This has been a sore subject with me as well PioBear! I just don't get why this happens. I expect its mostly people that are truely ignorant to the meaning. It's a shame really. Unfortunately I have seen many that are now using St Andrew's Day as an excuse to do the same.
I have really enjoyed the historical information put forth in this thread. The histories of Scotland, Ireland and Britain have always been an interest to me. There is alot of it to wade through and its hard sometimes to keep alot of it straight, especially when it comes to lineage of rulers.

[Edward Teach]

Originally Posted by PiobBear
St. Patrick’s Day is not an excuse to get snot-slinging, commode-hugging drunk, and I really don’t care for the fluorescent green Afro wigs, light-up shamrock deely-bobbers, mardi-gras beads and green beer that's come to be associated with St. Patrick's Day in the United States.

This has been a sore subject with me as well PioBear! I just don't get why this happens. I expect its mostly people that are truely ignorant to the meaning. It's a shame really. Unfortunately I have seen many that are now using St Andrew's Day as an excuse to do the same.
I have really enjoyed the historical information put forth in this thread. The histories of Scotland, Ireland and Britain have always been an interest to me. There is alot of it to wade through and its hard sometimes to keep alot of it straight, especially when it comes to lineage of rulers.

Agreed. Besides it's a waste of good booze if all you end up doing is puking it back up again.