Kilted John Barrowman

[AtagahiKC]

I think we are slightly askew in subject matter. Neither Barrowman's opinion nor mine are based strictly on kilt-wearing. I am talking about general levels of tolerance, not just kilts. I believe that what Barrowman says that he bases his opinion on, the flak he received over wearing his kilt and having a Glasgow accent, were just two of the symptoms of the larger problem of intolerance of differences in the Midwest, which he feels existed.

Yes, you can probably wear a kilt in Southwest Missouri without receiving too much flak. But I think that is the minimum measure of tolerance, not the maximum.

No one area has a monopoly on tolerance. But some areas have greater amounts than others. You can feel it when you move from one area of the country to another. Counter to what I thought I'd find, Arizona had a much greater level of tolerance of differences than I ever found in the Midwest.

But overall, it is no accident that high school principals in rural Missouri and a few other Midwestern states have been the ones fight the wearing of kilts by young men at proms. They wouldn't be fighting perceived differences were there not more people in their communities who supported their prejudice than those who did not.

That is not to say that there aren't people who disagree with those principals in their communities. Apparently, they are not in sufficient numbers to change the principals' minds, though.

I'm glad your experience has been different than mine. But just because your experience was different doesn't make Barrowman's or my experience less valid than yours.

There is room for all of our opinions and all of our experiences. I'm glad that you love the Midwest and enjoy living there.

My experience with the Midwest wasn't terrible, but having experienced living in an area with greater tolerance, it became one of the main reasons I moved away. But you know, vive le difference. That's why there are different places to live.

Finally, I stand corrected, Peoria is in Northern Illinois. I accept the local rules on geographical placement. I also accept that Barrowman might have come from Joliet. That sounds right to me now that you've said it.

Let's just be glad that Barrowman still wears his kilt proudly, as do I.

[macwilkin]

My point is that in the rural Midwest, in the 1980s when Barrowman formed his opinion, there was less tolerance for deviance from the norm than there is today.

You took my opinion about attitudes in my father's hometown in Kansas today and extrapolated them to mean all of the Midwest today. In fact, I meant that rural attitudes haven't changed that much in the intervening 25 years or so since I lived in rural Kansas.

From what I saw and experienced in living in Missouri for over 20 years was that the same intolerance existed in rural Missouri as in rural Kansas, even as late as 2007, when I moved away.

Perhaps the same intolerance didn't exist in rural Illinois at the time Barrowman lived there, but at least one person, Barrowman, believes it did. Peoria isn't that far from Missouri, so it seems more unlikely that tolerance levels changed dramatically in so short a distance.

In fact, my experience in Kansas City was different from my experience in rural Kansas. My experience in arch-conservative Arizona was better than Kansas City. My experience in California has been even better than that.

My inelegantly put point was that even today there are places in the rural Midwest where tolerance is not a wide-spread virtue. Those places are not limited to the Midwest/Plains states, rural or urban, of course.

Nor are all people in the rural Midwest intolerant. But it does seem that there are more who are not tolerant than those who are.

Does it mean that Barrowman would have the same experience today as he had in the 1980s? Not necessarily. Does intolerance of one type of difference equate to intolerance of kilts? No. Are all Midwesterners are prejudiced against men who wear kilts? No. Does that mean that Barrowman's experience was a fluke? No.

There is a reason that people who deviate from the norm and who grow up in small rural towns are more likely than not to move away to larger metropolitan areas. The tolerance of differences seem to dramatically improve the larger the population. Those who are different vote with their feet.

But overall, it is no accident that high school principals in rural Missouri and a few other Midwestern states have been the ones fight the wearing of kilts by young men at proms. They wouldn't be fighting perceived differences were there not more people in their communities who supported their prejudice than those who did not.

Just because you had good experiences doesn't mean that those experiences can be reproduced across the entire Midwest, anymore than Barrowman's or mine can be. Perhaps your perception is more accurate than mine, but I think the evidence tips more in my direction.

There will be good pockets and bad pockets of experiences across any region. In fact, the child who was killed by his classmate in Oxnard, CA demonstrates that prejudice against perceived differences exists even in California.

I'm glad your experience has been different than mine. But just because your experience was different doesn't make Barrowman's or my experience less valid than yours.

There is room for all of our opinions and all of our experiences. I'm glad that you love the rural Midwest and enjoy living there. My experience with the Midwest was different. I doubt that we'll change each other's opinions, so let's agree to disagree agreeably.

Finally, I stand corrected, Peoria is in Northern Illinois. I accept the local rules on geographical placement.

Let's just be glad that Barrowman still wears his kilt proudly, as do I.

I really don't call a town of 150,000+ "rural" (although it can have a small-town attitude at times), but in general, SGF is pretty metropolitan for this part of the country -- we're the biggest town between St. Louis and Tulsa, Kansas City and Little Rock. And a lot of Calfornians are moving here because of the cost of living, btw.

I started wearing a kilt when I was a senior in high school, and I have seen the knowledge about traditional Highland attire increase dramatically since the early 1990s.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you say, but I still think Barrowman is wrong for judging a whole geographic region because he was judged by a few people in Peoria, Illinois -- we're a' Jock Tamson's bairns after all.

I suppose a lot of my thoughts in this thread come from a good dose of what Meridith Willson called "Iowa-contrary"

Regards,

Todd

[davedove]

I'll admit that I wasn't wearing a kilt as I grew up in Illinois, and there would be many people from my county that would never understand it. Growing up, my parents took me across a lot of the US and there were people in my town whose response to our tales would be "I don't know why anyone would want to go there."

Even those who would eventually accept a person in the kilt would still consider him the "wierd guy in the skirt," maybe even most of them. But, at the same time, if that person should fall on hard times, they are the same people who would invite him in for a meal.

I think the main point Todd was trying to make was to be careful painting too broadly with out characterizations, and I believe you believe that as well.

I'm still a country boy at heart, so to me it seems like there are a lot of people from the bigger cities who seem to be very intolerant of those from rural areas, with the people on the coasts being the worst. Your experience seems to be just the opposite, so personal perception plays into it a lot.

It's all good though. Kilt on!!!