Shirts to be worn with PC jacket?

[Jack Daw]

It sure has confused me to the point that I would, if asked to attend a black tie event, not wear highland attire.

Then, you'll look like all the other penguins in the room. I wouldn't let concern over rule breakage limit me.

[Nervous Jock]

just no pocket on the shirt please

[Bugbear]

Then, you'll look like all the other penguins in the room. I wouldn't let concern over rule breakage limit me.

Even though I am a zebra at heart, being a penguin is fine to me.

[Jack Daw]

just no pocket on the shirt please

LOL! No pocket in my semi-formal shirts. But, I'd cringe at plain buttons, too.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

At one time there were degrees of formality regarding black tie-- "dressing for dinner" would be a tad less formal than a dinner party in someone's home which would be less formal than say, a tartan ball or standing up as a groomsman at a wedding. There was (and still is) a dress code regarding collars, which went (and goes) something like this:

PRE-and immediate POST-WWII
Dressing for dinner: soft (fold) collar;
Dinner Party: soft collar (or wing collar if held in an hotel);
Dinner at a restaurant: wing collar;
Party "at home" (yours or somebody else): soft collar;
Party "in public" (hotel, etc.): wing collar.

TODAY
Dinners/Dinner Parties: soft (fold) collar;
Parties (at home or in public): soft collar.

The dress hire brigade like wing collar shirts because the collars last longer than fold over (soft) collars, so tux rental shops don't have to buy as many shirts in a year. The result of this is that wing collar shirts are more or less eschewed by gentlemen because they are the hallmark of rented dinner clothes, in much the same way white socks have come to be universally worn by those renting highland attire.

Now these guidelines date from before WWII, and like a lot of customs, they are now more observed in the breech than in the keeping of them. I am a big proponent of the classic "wing collar", and have half a dozen dress shirts that I wear with wing collars. I also have perhaps a dozen wing collars to go with these shirts. I do not own a single "wing collar shirt".

Try to avoid buying a shirt with attached wing collar, if at all possible, for the following reasons:

1) For the collar to retain it's shape it will have to be heavily starched, which will cause the shirt to be extremely uncomfortable.

2) Unless the wing collar is detachable, it will, in all probability, be too narrow, and you run the risk of having your tie "ride up" over the edge of the collar. For a wing collar to look it's best, it has to fit both the circumference of the neck and the length of the neck.

3) If the wing collar is slightly too tight, there is no way you can nicely ease it out without spoiling the look of the shirt.

4) Your tie will show. Unless you tie your tie, the world will know that you are wearing a pre-tied bow tie, something no gentleman should ever do.

5) It is fake. And no matter how much you paid for the shirt, in the final analysis, fake things always look cheap.

As far as the front of the shirt is concerned, a plain flat front shirt probably looks slightly nicer than one with very narrow pleats, but really it is a matter of style and personal preference. Studs are again a matter of personal taste, and formal dress shirts may be had with or without stud fronts. Cuff links, however, are de rigeur.

[Spartan]

Where can one purchase dress shirts with French Cuffs. I need a shirt that I can wear with my kilt or with my tux.

Tanks, Frank

I've found formal shirts at Sears in the formal department. You can also check Men's Wearhouse, as they rent formal wear.

I'm careful about the word "correct," and use it carefully. Many things are a matter of preference rather than correctness. I believe that is the case with the pleated formal shirt vs. the plain front shirt. I have a pleated shirt with a wing tip collar that I use with formal wear. Now that I have a PC, I'm considering purchasing a plain front shirt, not because it's correct, but because I'm coming to believe that I will like it better with the PC.

Frank

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I'm careful about the word "correct," and use it carefully. Many things are a matter of preference rather than correctness. I believe that is the case with the pleated formal shirt vs. the plain front shirt. I have a pleated shirt with a wing tip collar that I use with formal wear. Now that I have a PC, I'm considering purchasing a plain front shirt, not because it's correct, but because I'm coming to believe that I will like it better with the PC.

Frank

You are spot on.

[Bugbear]

Well... It's just that my sense and instincts are scrambled when it comes to the formal Highland attire. For example, the Prince Charlie sounds much like a tail coat with the tails lopped back, to me, but it is the equivalent to a tuxedo.

I can memorize all these things, but when you throw on top of this that there is endless disagreement and argueing over socks, sporrans, and shoes, it becomes a bit overwelming.

* I'll go sit in the pouting corner now... *

[Riverkilt]

Whoa! Who'd have thunk there was so much to this. Thanks for the post.

Just ordered my first PC and hadn't thought ahead to the shirt part...just figured the waistcoat would cover most of it and no big deal...so...the addiction progresses to a new project.

Ron

[Carolina Kiltman]

My thanks to MacMillan. . . . when I received my complete complement of Navy Dress uniforms (1950) there were two "formal" shirts included. One, was pleated front, and soft collar, the other was the "boiled" shirt, with the plain front (with holes for the studs) and detached collar for the "White Tie" affairs. Since I had been assigned to embassy duty, I also had both white and Navy blue mess jackets "bum freezers" boat cloak to be worn with the above etc, etc, etc. I wondered why the change to wing collars with the tux shirts. Now I know. (I still wear the pleated, soft collar to black tie affairs with a Black Bramar jacket and 3 button vest.)