What do I say to my Dad?

[Nanook]

For many immigrants, maintaining ties to the old country was a safety valve in a country where the "native Americans" wanted nothing to do with them.

A significant proportion of European immigrants to the US up through the last century left their "homelands" for reasons that their native country, to use your words, wanted nothing to do with them. It was not uncommon for entire tribes (ethnic minority communities, families, churches, sects) to move leaving only the most infirm behind. Migration for many was an imperative driven by the want of survival.
Sure many of these communities nurtured feelings and sentimentalities of a "homeland" but much was little more than a projection of what never was. It was not terribly uncommon for people to create personal family histories of life before migration that never held true. Its a natural human response. Few would want to clearly acknowledge the unwantedness experienced. Few would want to recall the personal pain of their persecution or ill treatment. These memories, like all memories of pain, get suppressed and often replaced with stronger memories of more pleasant events to even fictive projections of want (dreams). In stories and recollections people also want to look good. Few want to recall much less pass on to posterity stories of their experiences at extremes of the human ill-condition where they behaved in manners considered from a perspective of a civil society, out of the context, as ghastly (including even cannibalism, prostitution, murder and extortion).
Those families that came to find financial success in America, of course, where often warmly invited to increase contacts with the "homeland" but it was the cash and dollars that was the true welcome guest.

[macwilkin]

A significant proportion of European immigrants to the US up through the last century left their "homelands" for reasons that their native country, to use your words, wanted nothing to do with them. It was not uncommon for entire tribes (ethnic minority communities, families, churches, sects) to move leaving only the most infirm behind. Migration for many was an imperative driven by the want of survival.
Sure many of these communities nurtured feelings and sentimentalities of a "homeland" but much was little more than a projection of what never was. It was not terribly uncommon for people to create personal family histories of life before migration that never held true. Its a natural human response. Few would want to clearly acknowledge the unwantedness experienced. Few would want to recall the personal pain of their persecution or ill treatment. These memories, like all memories of pain, get suppressed and often replaced with stronger memories of more pleasant events to even fictive projections of want (dreams). In stories and recollections people also want to look good. Few want to recall much less pass on to posterity stories of their experiences at extremes of the human ill-condition where they behaved in manners considered from a perspective of a civil society, out of the context, as ghastly (including even cannibalism, prostitution, murder and extortion).
Those families that came to find financial success in America, of course, where often warmly invited to increase contacts with the "homeland" but it was the cash and dollars that was the true welcome guest.

All very true and good points, Nanook. Is that your "real" name, btw? You've never properly introduced yourself.

The immigrant experience was very personal and unique to each individual. Many did leave due to the hardships you described, and some didn't look back. Others managed to create a new identity made up of both the new and old worlds.

Regards,

Todd

[siva011]

I know many people who don't understand about my interest in heritage, and when asked why I can't explain it, but I just feel it's important. Plus, the more people who become disinterested in their heritage, the more of that culture is lost. This isn't just Americans, but for anyone who isn't interested in looking into their past.

My wife's family is PA Dutch. They know EXACTLY where they came from, and still carry many of the German traditions. My father in law still makes sauerkraut by hand, and the local church sings their songs in German. It is amazing seeing the culture actually being lived out, and not in festivals but in normal life. I live close to Amish country, and it's great to see culture preserved. My family loves to say how Irish they are, yet know nothing about Irish culture or history, or their family history. And they don't seem to care.

While you can't force your father to participate, you could let him know this is important to you and ask if he can offer his support. I love the support I get from my wife's family with living my Irish and Scottish heritage, especially with kilts. Even though it isn't their culture, they fully understand the importance of knowing that about where you came from, and it's great to have that support.

[McFarkus]

I live and work in neighborhoods on Chicago's North side that are entry ports for many immigrants. In one local high school there are more than 40 distinct ethnicities and 60 languages spoken in the homes of the students. So it's not unusual to be asked, "What nationality are you."

For a long time I just answered, "American," though I knew my roots included Scots, Irish, English, French and German. I had relatives on both sides who had laid a foundation for a family tree; and so, in most cases, my own explorations began in the 18th century.

I found out some of the reasons for my lack of clarity about roots. My earliest ancestor arrived in Jamestown in 1607. My most recent immigrant ancestors arrived in the mid-18th century (Scots). So it's been more than 250 years since my family has had direct immigrant roots.

One of the things I discovered is the extent to which I'm a mutt. In addition to the "ethnic" roots listed above, I've found connections to most European countries, North African and beyond. Genealogy can be very enlightening.

[Cherub]

Sorry, Raph, but you're wrong on your second point. A number of immigrants to the USA (and Canada for that matter) have held on to ties to the old world as well as being residents of the New. I discuss this in my history classes I teach; matter of fact, I'll be taking my Ozarks history class to a church that was started by German immigrants in the 19th century and still has a lot German heritage connected with it.

For many immigrants, maintaining ties to the old country was a safety valve in a country where the "native Americans" wanted nothing to do with them.

Regards,

Todd

Well for Canadians its not a mater of choice on our census you can not put Canadian you have to put in more than that Chinese, Jewish, etc. If you don't you could be fined or imprisoned. Crazy but true.

[macwilkin]

Well for Canadians its not a mater of choice on our census you can not put Canadian you have to put in more than that Chinese, Jewish, etc. If you don't you could be fined or imprisoned. Crazy but true.

Cherub,

Please re-read my original post, as I was not discussing the census per se, but rather more tanigble ties as the ones listed -- religion, language, etc.

T.

[Cherub]

Cherub,

Please re-read my original post, as I was not discussing the census per se, but rather more tanigble ties as the ones listed -- religion, language, etc.

T.

Oh I understood it, but thought the fact that our census requires you to have at least a passing knowledge of where you came from was relevant to the discussion.

[ForresterModern]

After the birth of my youngest son this past winter, I visited my folks to show him off, while at the same time discussing what little I knew of the history of my surname, Foster, and of its apparent Scottish origin as a part of the Forrester clan of the lowlands west of Edinburgh. To make a long story short my father brings out a tattered old leather briefcase full of pictures and various documents that he had either been given or inherited over the years from various family members. After digging through it all, I discovered an incomplete family tree that went back at least 7 generations of the Foster name, then completed the remaining lineage about 3 more genrations to the original William Forrester who came across on a boat sometime in the early 1700s and landed somewhere in Maryland (still more digging to do to go back further). I di this by reading a typed history of another portion of the family (a branch that ended up not being Fosters) made god only knows how long ago or by precisely whom, as it is not dated or signed or otherwise credited. That pile of stuff had been sitting in his basement, some of it from when I was a small child (I remember seeing him putting stuff into the briefcase several times in my youth) but no one had ever done any research beyond a couple generations before themselves. We discovered that we were a founding family of Virginia origianlly and that we had lost our heritable land due to a catastrophic series of climatic, political, financial, and ultimately shady coincidental events. After losiing our land several remaining members of the "clan" relocated to the western portions of Virginia (now West Virginia) and set up shop in a single hollow for the next several generations. At least in part becasue of my interest in tracing the family name, my father (who still lives in WV) has since gone back to the "hollow" where his ancestors lived and discovered an overgrown family cemetary, along with the gravestones of many ancient relatives, including his own great grandfather and great-great grandfather. He has promised to take me there the next time I am out that way so that I can passit on to future generations myself.

It looks like I may be able to get hold of a listing of ships manifests containing a number of Forrester/Fosters who came over in the 1600-1800 range and landed in the colonies, which may allow me to trace us back even into the "old country", where records are generally a little better than over here. We shall see.

My dad has become quite interested in all this now, including my scottish highlandwear fetish, although all I can get him to wear is a flat cap in the family tartan and a clan forrester t-shirt I picked up for him. He in his waning days is looking backward almost as longingly as I to learn more about from whence we came---at least our family surname.

[slohairt]

Well for Canadians its not a mater of choice on our census you can not put Canadian you have to put in more than that Chinese, Jewish, etc. If you don't you could be fined or imprisoned. Crazy but true.

Ah, the "cultural mosaic" vs "melting pot" debate we have here in Canada all the time!

[Dr Mac]

Jock Scot has a point... the memories of Scotland may have been painful, rather than fond. Trying to force the issue could very possibly make matters worse instead of better.