Dunbar P1

[Mr. Woolery]

George, well, you are right, of course, but at the same time why not start with the wood if it costs the same? See my comments about it in the other thread over on the Celtic Musicians board. I can point to at least two options in blackwood (both made in Scotland by good makers) that cost less than a set of P1s and one that costs only a little more. If you absolutely have to have plastic, there are a couple of options out there that cost less than the P1s. If you expect to eventually own blackwood pipes, why waste money on a transitional set of plastic pipes that cost almost the same and isn't what you actually want?

My point is not to say one should not buy them. My point is to say that one should not feel that all beginners must settle for them. It would be like telling a man who knows he wants to wear a good kilt that he should spend $350 on a synthetic kilt and wear that for a year or two (or until he can really tell the difference between PV and wool) before he considers getting a decent wool kilt for $350. Or, in this case, possibly less!

Know your options, get what you actually want, you'll be happier in the end.

If there's a reason to need a plastic bagpipe, then certainly consider it, but try to check out the other options before you are set on it. If it is just a matter of getting a bagpipe, at least see if you can find a set locally and heft them. Those P1s are not light, nor are they all that well balanced. My bling pipes weigh about the same, but are balanced better and much more comfortable to play.

I was reminded of this just last night. A friend just bought a set of P1s, against the advice of his teacher (who felt that they would be too heavy for him, as he is rather slight), and I helped him set them up last night. The drones sound fine, though the Henderson reeds he has may not be the best match for them. The sound of the drones was okay, but not at all the sort of sound that reaches out and grabs you. With different reeds, different results may well be likely. Anyway, this set of Dunbars has a plastic chanter that I just don't like at all. I had to try a couple of my reeds in it to get one that played in tune (ended up with a Soutar, scraped down a bit for the lower pressure my friend needs) and the result was a disappointment. The chanter plays in tune, but the tone is just so lifeless compared to my blackwood McCallum chanter (same reed, same night, same player - I had my pipes along). Other plastic chanters I've tried (War-Mac, McCallum, Shepherd) have had a lot more life and body to them. If you buy a set of pipes expecting to upgrade the chanter from the start, you have wasted the price of the a chanter in the whole deal.

And I don't find it at all difficult to tell the difference between a blackwood chanter and a plastic one. Just ask for a piobaireachd high G and the difference is often very obvious. There may be plastic chanters out there that can play one well, but I have not heard them (though my experience is limited to three -now four, including the Dunbar- makes of plastic chanters and four wooden chanters, so I admit it isn't all-encompassing).

I'm not trying to steer anyone away from these pipes. I'm only trying to steer folks toward the other options out there so they don't feel that they are stuck with one make, one model as the only possible bagpipes for beginners. No matter what a retailer might say, sometimes the best plan is to look around a bit more before you shell out all that money for something that is almost universally looked upon as a beginner's bagpipe, not one that will suit you when you gain more experience.

-Patrick

[pipesndrumsnun]

I LOVE my P1s! I have a band friend who has 5 sets of pipes...4 blackwood name brand, expensive sets and 1 set of Dunbar P1s; he says the P1s are by far his favorite! He also says that if a professional piper were playing them from behind a screen that nobody, even a pro piper or a judge, would be able to tell the diference between the sound of P1s and wood.

NOW, before anybody takes me to task or argues with me due to these comments...PLEASE DON'T!! I'm just telling you what a long time piper friend has to say.

[JS Sanders]

<< When you can hear the difference between plastic and blackwood, you'll be ready to upgrade. >>

Well put Geordie.

One's ear should develop quickly being around the instrument. In a relatively short time of hearing plastic/wooden pipe drones & chanters, a progessing piper can distinguish the difference.

As I've written previous times, I own a set of Dunbar pipes and play them regularly. This winter I've had them at gigs several times in below freezing temperatures. When wooden pipes are exposed to cold temps and moist warm breath simultaneously, damage can occur. Not a worry with delrin pipes.

Dunbar's drone's tone & timbre is OK, but they simply do not possess the quality of sound that manufactured African blackwood, or in my case, cocobolo pipes have. I cannot rule out a drone-reed combination unknown to me that sounds good, but I seriously doubt it.

And their chanter.... I still have the original that arrived with my Dunbar's - just don't quite know where it is. A Gibson plastic chanter has taken its place.

Slainte,
steve

[SteveB]

Both plastic and Blackwood have their place.
There is a difference in sound - yes.
i own a McCallum practice chanter in plastic, and a Dunbar practice chanter in Blackwood. The tone of the Blackwood is more vibrant and full. i am years away from the GHB, but the instrument that I play everyday is the blackwood, for its sound gives me great pleasure, and gives me instant feedback when I don't get it right. This is an important feature when trying to learn the pipes.
The plastic chanter goes with me in the car, as I know it will take the beating that is the varied New England temperatures, as well as the occasional roll of the seat in traffic. I would cringe if anything like the roll around the car were to happen to my blackwood instrument.

[Derek Conley]

To the experienced pipers out there: Would it be suggested (provided finances allow) to have a good "main" set of pipes, and possibly a set of polypenco (delrin, etc) pipes as "backups" for inclement weather and the like? I use this mentality with my guitars, for instance. I've already set aside a "Pipe budget" ($3,000) for whenever the time rolls around to be ready, and I'm a strong proponent for purchasing solid quality from the get-go; to that end, I'll defer to my piping instructor of course.

I've only been on the PC since October but can readily tell the different between blackwood PCs and poly PCs. I love the tone blackwood provides.

As a total aside, I just received my McCallum long PC and it has made a world of difference in just 2 days. I've been having problems for a while now on the standard-length chanter when going from B to low G in that my pinky has constantly stretched past the hole; with the long chanter, it's dead-on. I couldn't be more pleased.

[kypnkilt]

There are those (like myself) that have "keepers" and "spares". My keepers are "fair weather players", but not all the time if I cannot help it. My "spares" or just the one spare, is used for everything else. I have a set of P3's that I play and probably handle a little more roughly that I'd like, but they work great and never let me down.

However, many other pipers just play with what they have and no regrets no matter what the weather is. I don't see too many pipers with 1890 Hendersons in a blizzard or a down pour, but I have played my Hardies and my cocobolo set in the rain with no problems (except temperamental reeds).

But really...the main backup you should always have and ready is a chanter. Having a backup/spare chanter w/reed is a must if you are out and about in a band, solo, etc. All my pipes have backup chanters...usually polys. I have a Warnock and a MacLellan chanter as my backups. Reeds are already (or mostly) broke in. Chanter holes taped where needed and so on.

On another note my Soutar DS-4's will be here soon...have to go chanter shopping again....

[JS Sanders]

<< To the experienced pipers out there: Would it be suggested (provided finances allow) to have a good "main" set of pipes, and possibly a set of polypenco (delrin, etc) pipes as "backups" for inclement weather and the like? >>

As I've written here several times, this is precisely what I do. Simply put, you have an obligation to perform when there's money on the table. My Dunbars travel with me to virtually every gig as backups.

Mine are played regularly and ready to go, in case disaster occurs.

Slan,
steve

[Derek Conley]

I appreciate your input; thank you. I'm a ways off from having to plan anything of the sort, really, but... well... I like to be prepared!

[Mr. Woolery]

I play one set of pipes. Any weather I'll pipe in anyway should be fine for my pipes. I don't play in sub-zero weather, downpours, or big windy conditions. If you really want to play in the ugly weather, get a set of pipes that will handle it. If you have ever watched a pipe band march in the rain, you'll notice that most of them have their good pipes and just deal with the weather.

That said, I don't do a lot of performing. However, any weather that I'd be willing to play in at all is weather I'll use my blackwood pipes in. If you are playing for personal pleasure, there's no reason for two sets of pipes. You wouldn't want to play in the rain or snow normally anyway. If I had to perform in such conditions, I'd play only as long as I am comfortable doing so (not all that long) and I'll trust that my pipes can take it. I live in Alaska and am not worried about my pipes working fine for any conditions in which I have reason to play them.

The place for poly pipes is where you would be actually planning to abuse them, in my opinion. That's a very valid purpose for plastic, but it costs the same as blackwood pipes of equal decorative value, so I don't think it is really much of a savings, myself.

I don't actually object to plastic bagpipes. I do object to anyone thinking that they "have" to get them because they are "cheaper" or "better" for starting out. A nicer bagpipe can be had for the same money, but if you won't take care of your pipes, you had best spend that cash on the plastic pipes. If you will take care of them, I'll suggest again that you consider strongly getting wood pipes. They'll sound better with time, they will generally weigh less (this can be important), and they'll look good.

Personally, I have trouble with the idea of planning to abuse an instrument in the first place. Take care of your instruments and they'll keep working fine.

Three grand is enough for a really pimped-out set of pipes or a couple of nice sets. Since you have a good budget, Derek, I'll suggest strongly that you get a blackwood chanter with your pipes. It will be more pleasant to play and more pleasant to listen to, so you'll play more. And that makes you a better piper. I do contend, for this reason, that a better instrument makes a better musician. (The differences between a blackwood practice chanter, a poly PC, and a Pakistani practice chanter should make this totally clear to anyone who has tried all of them. The better instrument makes you want to play a lot more and it tends to give you better feel and that makes for a better musician.)

-Patrick

[Standard]

Wow great thread. Thanks for posting all the great information lads. I'd love to learn to play the pipe, just having trouble locating a teacher. And, since I've very little musical ability on my own, I need all the help I can get.