Term for Scottish emigrant descendants?

[Riverkilt]

Oh God...I'll be the sucker.

From what I know of my family Tree, acquired from many generations of genealogy addicts, including myself since 1970....my paternal DNA is Scandanavian. The farthest back I've been able to trace is to my five great grandfather Ludovic Macdonald of Uig, Skye born about 1750. I have no trouble embracing Clan Donald as a Son of Somerled - a descendent of Viking invaders of Skye as verified by tradition, family knowledge, and DNA testing.

Of course I also have known Irish, Welsh, Dutch, English, and even a Palantine German line. And who knows what lurks on other undiscovered branches.

But I believe it is heritage and blood that makes a person who they are, not where they happen to live at any given time.

I don't need other people to define myself thank you. I can do that for myself. If other people should object to how I define myself that is none of my business. There is no reason for me to value the opinion of someone interested in spending their time defining who I am. I do that.

I do have one great great grandfather who came to America from Glasgow, raised a family, then abandoned his wife and children and returned to Glasgow. No clue why yet.

Okay, feeding time is over.

Ron

[###KILTEDKIWI###]

I know what glasgowinhabitant is trying to say, perhaps the delivery and tone need to be adjusted for acceptability in this forum.

this is a weird one, I'm a New Zealander, first and foremost, who's family settled in NZ, and is proud of his Scottish roots.

The amusing thing in NZ, is that, it is thought that European NZer's have no culture...except that of BBQ's and beer, rugby etc...

So when someone shows a bit of pride in who they are and where their families come from (i.e The Kilt, and tracing ones roots) you unfortunately get the responses like those displayed from glasinhab.

I suggest that you may want to take your problem with peoples association with clans and families up at the gathering this year...
the tens of thousands of people may disuade your negative attitude somewhat. (and the financial benefits they bring for family associations, communities and your country directly)

I'm a Kiwi.

Our country speaks for itself, and our reputations are well known, part of that is our pride and passion for who we are...

if others don't like that, well then don't let the door hit you in the backside on the way out.

[beloitpiper]

The amusing thing in NZ, is that, it is thought that European NZer's have no culture...except that of BBQ's and beer, rugby etc...

As an anthropologist, I must disagree. You may mean Culture (with a capital "C"), but everybody has a culture. Sorry to be annoying, but I've been studying culture for 4 years and need to use that education somehow!

[xena]

And "poof!" glasgowinhabitant is gone.

But, he was right about one thing. "Scottish" is not a race. It is however, an ETHNICITY, which is, interestingly, NOT limited by geography. FWIW, one also does NOT have to have genetic ancestry in an ethnicity in order to adopt it as one's own.

One can become, at least partially, Scottish by adopting elements of the culture as your own, regardless of where your parents came from.

[Seeria]

O.O

Well, that'll teach me to ask a question.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

And "poof!" glasgowinhabitant is gone.

But, he was right about one thing. "Scottish" is not a race. It is however, an ETHNICITY, which is, interestingly, NOT limited by geography. FWIW, one also does NOT have to have genetic ancestry in an ethnicity in order to adopt it as one's own.

One can become, at least partially, Scottish by adopting elements of the culture as your own, regardless of where your parents came from.

...no matter how much chow mein I may consume, I doubt I'll become, even partially, Chinese. A great cultural and culinary affinity, yes; but I'll never qualify as partially Chinese. The same applies to those who find themselves more attracted to Scotland and Scottish culture (I'll leave the cuisine out of this for the moment) than to their own native land and culture -- they're Scotophiles, and as such are more than welcome into my wee hoos'. But, they will never truly be Scots (more's the pity, as I'd be delighted to purchase a replacement for our banned Glaswegian lad) no matter how much haggis they consume, no matter how well they play the pipes, no matter how well they wear the kilt.

I am sure someone will chime in and demand to know how much Scottish ancestry is required before one can claim to be "Scottish". I would say that that is up to the individual-- the American President is half Caucasian and half Semitic (his father having described himself during his lifetime as an Arab). That he chooses to identify himself as "African" (his father was born in Kenya) is fine by me; he is as much entitled to pick and choose his ethnicity as someone whose ancestor came from Scotland in 1607 is entitled to claim his Scottish roots.

What makes a Scot a "Scot" is his pride in his Scottish ancestry, no matter how distant in time.

[Bugbear]

No, Seeria, it was a fine question. That was just a trouble maker and the Mods zapped him. That happens sometimes.

Hope you stay around.

[###KILTEDKIWI###]

Originally Posted by ###KILTEDKIWI###
The amusing thing in NZ, is that, it is thought that European NZer's have no culture...except that of BBQ's and beer, rugby etc...

As an anthropologist, I must disagree. You may mean Culture (with a capital "C"), but everybody has a culture. Sorry to be annoying, but I've been studying culture for 4 years and need to use that education somehow!

Come over here during the build up to Waitangi weekend, then you will experience it for your self...

As an anthropologist,

Bet it took four years to learn to spell that correctly and all...

but I've been studying culture for 4 years and need to use that education somehow![/

bejesus, Ive been studying the "C"ulture of intoxicating beverages for near on 14 years...wonder if i can take a thesis on that?

Usually the words that are assocaited with culture, myself and sentences are arranged thus...

You are an un"C"ultured ....@$#$...

New Zealand "C"ulture - see

Holden versus ford
Speights versus Lion red
All Blacks versus - everyone
Mainland (South Island) versus the North Island
NZ versus Aus

Thats the "C"ulture here

Culture
Culture: is a shared, learned, symbolic system of values, beliefs and attitudes that shapes and influences perception and behavior -- an abstract "mental blueprint" or "mental code."

Must be studied "indirectly" by studying behavior, customs, material culture (artifacts, tools, technology), language, etc.

1) Learned. Process of learning one's culture is called enculturation.

2) Shared by the members of a society. No "culture of one."

3) Patterned. People in a society live and think in ways that form definite patterns.

4) Mutually constructed through a constant process of social interaction.

5) Symbolic. Culture, language and thought are based on symbols and symbolic meanings.

6) Arbitrary. Not based on "natural laws" external to humans, but created by humans according to the "whims" of the society. Example: standards of beauty.

7) Internalized. Habitual. Taken-for-granted. Perceived as "natural."

[xena]

I hear what your trying to get at MacMillan, but I think we may be trying to say the same thing two different ways. You may like Chinese food, and that won't make you Chinese, but neither will having medium dark skin, black hair and the "asiatic fold" in your eyes.

Where I live, there are many people of Asian ancestry (that is their ancestors came from Asia, and they have the characteristic genetic features that we associate with that region) who aren't ethnically Asian. They are ethnic "North Americans", and more WASPy than I am. They are colloquially known as "bananas", as in yellow on the outside, white on the inside.

I know a man who grew up in Taiwan (his parents were diplomats) who, for all intents and purposes is more Chinese than most Chinese around here, and he's a ginger! He's what they would call an egg - the exact opposite of a banana - white on the outside, and yellow on the inside. I've seen Sikhs with red-hair and freckles, and Ebony skinned Jews. There are (East) Indians who are card carrying Tory's (read as: "Republican" if you're in the USA) and the number of Caucasian's that are into Chakra therapy is astounding.

But, on the other hand, what we also have to consider is that ethnicity and culture are not whimsical. One can't just wake up one morning and decide that they're "whatever". Ethnicity and culture involve one's entire lifestyle, and that can't just be changed instantaneously. So, for those that take it seriously enough to live it in the long-term, one may call them Scotophiles, or adopted Scots, or just Scots (or maybe just plain crazy! lol!), but it does them a disservice if we dismiss them with a "we like you, but you'll never be one of us" attitude.

So, FWIW, I don't think we disagree! I'm just trying to be a bit more open about people being who they want to be.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I hear what your trying to get at MacMillan, but I think we may be trying to say the same thing two different ways. You may like Chinese food, and that won't make you Chinese, but neither will having medium dark skin, black hair and the "asiatic fold" in your eyes.

Actually, having the racial characteristics you've described would make me Chinese if my ancestors came from Shanghai. If they came from Seoul, I'd be Korean, and if they hailed from Yoda (a suburb of Tokyo) I'd be Japanese.

Where I live, there are many people of Asian ancestry (that is their ancestors came from Asia, and they have the characteristic genetic features that we associate with that region) who aren't ethnically Asian.

They aren't? What are they?

They are ethnic "North Americans"

Hold it right there. I know that Canada strives mightily to become a multi-ethnic/multi-cultural society, but the last time I looked there was no such a thing as an ethnic "Norte Americano".

I've seen Sikhs with red-hair and freckles, and Ebony skinned Jews. There are (East) Indians who are card carrying Tory's (read as: "Republican" if you're in the USA)...

So? People look different, they don't all fall into stereotypes; that's not the point.

...and the number of Caucasian's that are into Chakra therapy is astounding.

Being "into" something doesn't alter the fact that they are Caucasians... despite practicing yoga, they are not turning into Aryans, Dravidians, or any other sort of Indio-Persian person. They may be limber, they may be in touch with the seven centers of the body, but they are still Caucasians.

But, on the other hand, what we also have to consider is that ethnicity and culture are not whimsical. One can't just wake up one morning and decide that they're "whatever". Ethnicity and culture involve one's entire lifestyle,

You've jumped over the part about ancestry-- it is ancestry that determines ethnicity, and environment that shapes an individual's reaction and acceptance (or rejection) of his Culture. One can "share" someone else's Culture without being an ethnic part of the Culture.

So, for those that take it seriously enough to live it in the long-term, one may call them Scotophiles,

Which I do, because they love my Culture as much, or more, than their own ethnic Culture.

or adopted Scots, or just Scots (or maybe just plain crazy! lol!), but it does them a disservice if we dismiss them with a "we like you, but you'll never be one of us" attitude.

It isn't about "dismissiveness", as much as it it about facing the fact that "all inclusiveness" is an awkward, politically correct, social fiction. No one "dismisses" someone who pays them the compliment of immersing himself in their Culture. Far from it. We laud their interest and efforts. But those interests and efforts, as noble as they may be, will not transform a Hottentot into a Scot, any more that it would turn a Scot into an Eskimo.

I think that people are more receptive to, and more respectful of, those people who are not trying to be something they aren't. It is better to be who you are, rather than trying to be something you are not.

I'm just trying to be a bit more open about people being who they want to be.

I'm all in favour of an open society. As long as it's an honest society.

And on that, I think we can both agree.