Irish wore kilts?

[macwilkin]

That one was explained to me 'as matter of fact' one day.

The Brittish used a local source to get more kilts while they occupied India. When they left, there were generations of kiltmakers that just kept on going. Served them quite well at that I bet.

Someone was pulling your leg with that whopper...

T.

[O'Callaghan]

That one was explained to me 'as matter of fact' one day.

The Brittish used a local source to get more kilts while they occupied India. When they left, there were generations of kiltmakers that just kept on going. Served them quite well at that I bet.

That seems to be approximately right. There is not necessarily complete continuity, but many Pakistani kiltmakers today do claim family descent from those who made kilts for the British Raj (Pakistan was of course part of India in those days). Interestingly, all the Pakistani kiltmakers today appear to be located in Sialkot, which is just on the Pakistani side of the border with India in the divided province of the Punjab. Probably being all in one town has helped to preserve the skills, as it is easier for someone to set up a business where there is a skilled pool of labour.

By some accounts there are as many as 200 separate businesses in Sialkot making kilts, many of whom make bagpipes as well (you can find on here many threads denigrating their bagpipes, but it seems to come down to them sticking to rosewood chanters while the Scots have switched to endangered African hardwoods).

[macwilkin]

That seems to be approximately right. There is not necessarily complete continuity, but many Pakistani kiltmakers today do claim family descent from those who made kilts for the British Raj (Pakistan was of course part of India in those days). Interestingly, all the Pakistani kiltmakers today appear to be located in Sialkot, which is just on the Pakistani side of the border with India in the divided province of the Punjab. Probably being all in one town has helped to preserve the skills, as it is easier for someone to set up a business where there is a skilled pool of labour.

By some accounts there are as many as 200 separate businesses in Sialkot making kilts, many of whom make bagpipes as well (you can find on here many threads denigrating their bagpipes, but it seems to come down to them sticking to rosewood chanters while the Scots have switched to endangered African hardwoods).

I would love to see a source on this that government issue kilts were made "in country" in the Raj ; as a resident of Missouri, you'll have to "show-me".

T.

[O'Callaghan]

I would love to see a source on this that government issue kilts were made "in country" in the Raj ; as a resident of Missouri, you'll have to "show-me".

T.

All I could show you is what the kiltmakers themselves say, and I would have to find it first. Nonetheless, they often do claim that their fathers or more likely grandfathers owned similar concerns that made kilts and/or bagpipes for the British.

Don't forget that not all uniform is issued, some of it is bought. There are military men on here who can tell you about having to buy uniform, and I know that in England and other places there have always been enterprising tailors that made uniforms that fit a little better and were maybe made from a little better cloth than the official issue, often for lower cost.

There really is no necessity for the British Army to have been involved, and it probably wasn't. All that would be necessary would be for the Indians (then, now Pakistanis since partition) to have made uniform items and for the British soldiers to have bought them with their own money. I would be more surprised if that had not happened, so I have no trouble believing that it did. Anyone who had to buy their own uniform and found that they could buy items locally in a low cost country would jump at the chance to save some money.

[bear]

Kibbitzers aside, I think this is the sort of topic that a kilt forum SHOULD be discussing. I'm very interested in the Irish side of kilts and their growing popularity in North America.
Tea wasn't native to England but it's a tradition there.
I think there is enough evidence of kilts in Ireland for them to be considered traditional.

[Swampthing]

Everyone knows the Egyptians invented the kilt!

[sathor]

Everyone knows the Egyptians invented the kilt!

I was just watching a few Egyptian documentaries yesterday, and it was mentioned that the Pharaoh's skirts were pleated. They were also transparent.
The slaves were naked, beyond that, one sign of your wealth was the transparency of your garments.

[george7]

The Irish have worn kilts for decades... at least decades.

[bigdad1]

A lot of interesting conjecture. One discordant note is the reference to kilts being made of silk. Around the time frames mentioned silk was very expensive and only used by the richest lords and royalty. It seems unlikely that ragged tribesmen would have a source of silk that was inexpensive enough to make kilts and clothing.

[Geoff Withnell]

So here I stand, by heritage a Welshman and a Lancastrian on my father's side, and Irish and Scottish on my mother's. So of course I wear a kilt, in my clan tartan. Leatherneck! We Celts need to band together against the insidious invasion of that Germanic invention - breeches otherwise known as pants.

Geoff Withnell