Glengarry's of old?

[79thReproductions]

Yup. The red appears slightly darker then the blue. All images of original 79th soldiers in their glengarries have the same effect, the Red->Blue->White pattern with the red being more prominent.

One of the issues with studying these images as they are, as I'm sure you are aware of, is their low digital quality. Details are lost, tones are all of the place and even the low resolution can distort actual attributes of the image.

Here's the 1st Sgt's glengarry.


Compare this to Sgt. Sheerer of Company I. The detail of this image is better ith:




The documented glengarries known are well established to be original examples from the 79th pre war/ 2nd issue from 1864. They all have a general consistency that matches the primary sources.

What is confusing even more me is how they are treated. The "Debose glengarry" for example has a feather hackle crudely sewn on. I'm sure its a post war alteration. Something to make it look cool even. The reason is that there are holes where the original cockaide was. Yup! Holes.....stitch marks. Wear outside where it used to be. There's also the fact that from the dozens of images of original soldiers, there is nothing seen like that.

The insignia is period though! "79 NY" and thistle

[79thReproductions]

Here are some more pictures from the recent Hendershott catalog. Richard, this is the dicing is in the arrangement you mentioned and did for your glengarry..... I stand corrected! This is the first original I have seen with the Blue, Red, White.

Its marked to Alexander Campbell, famous from "Him on the One Side and Me on the Other' : The Civil War Letters of Alexander Campbell, 79th New York Infantry Regiment, and James Campbell, 1st South Carolina Battalion"
Written by Terry Johnston.










This is like the glengarries thought to be from 1864. The tells are:

Profile: They have a more drastic curve.

Height: The front is shorter then the earlier glengarries seen in images of pre war/early war soldiers. These 1864 hats are common in post war images.

Lining Mark: Made in England, the later issue of glengarries are marked with a seal. Does anyone have any information on this seal?

Its possible that the person knitting this one slipped up! Easy enough error when working for a company trying to meet a quota. Who knows.

Cockades like these have never been seen in any prewar or war time image. Only in post war images. I think they were part of the uniform change.

Speaking of which. Richard, you might enjoy this. This is a post war image of the 79th New York National Guard....possibly taken in 1872-1876 because there is a mix and match of pre war uniform items with post war 1874 uniform items.



Left to right = Man 1 - 4

Men 2/4 are wearing 1864 glengarries. 1/3 are wearing the 1872 issue glengarries

Men 2/3 are wearing 1872 modified artillery jackets (Sporran cut outs) 1/4 are wearing the 1868 jackets.

They all seem to be wearing the new kilts. Cameron of Erracht Ancient. Changed from Cameron of Erracht Modern.

I could go on......but Ill spare the forum and not take up any more bandwidth!


Oh! And this glengarry is for sale. Only $17,500. If I had $17,500 in my pocket right now.......Isaac Stevens help me......

[OC Richard]

Wow that is a cool photo! Thanks for posting it!

The guy on the right is wearing the prewar 1858-1861 sporran (to my mind the "real" 79th NY sporran).

A couple of them are wearing off-the-shelf Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders glengarries. (I think I'd prefer modern reenactors, if they MUST wear modern off-the-shelf Scottish style glens, to wear the A&SH ones over the red/black/white three-row civilian diced glens they always wear.)

The two middle guys' jackets look like they might possibly be the prewar style- you can almost make out the zigzag on the collar.

Note that none are wearing the prewar hose: red & white diced with a plain white turnover cuff.

[79thReproductions]

Yes! The "real" Sporran. Hah

Does anyone have any idea what the thing is on the sleeve on the man on the right? It looks like a circle patch.

The new hoes are......well take a look. Ugly?


I think those two middle men are wearing the "new" jackets. The collars are shorter then the pre war jackets.

Pre-War collar

Compared to:

Post-War collar

[NorCalPiper]

Look at the curvature of this Glengarry-

[macwilkin]

Look at the curvature of this Glengarry-

Made especially for the Black Watch of Canada during WWI. One of the RHRC battalions also wore a khaki tartan kilt.

T.

[OC Richard]

One of the RHRC battalions also wore a khaki tartan kilt.

Khaki, or Hodden Grey?

The Hodden Grey kilts of the London Scottish and Toronto Scottish are quite often mistaken for khaki. Can you post a colour photo showing the khaki kilt?

Here's a typical photo of members of the London Scottish. Being in black & white one could think the kilts khaki:



But in colour the kilt, plaid, and doublet are seen to be Hodden Grey:



(The Pipe Major in the upper photo has stars or pips or something around his Badges of Office, which I've not seen elsewhere.)

That khaki glen well shows the old sort of glen that has a front that doesn't curve down steeply like modern glens and looks taller when viewed from the front. Great pics!

Oh... that evil photo of postwar 79th stuff that keeps popping up!! It's done more damage to recreating the uniform of the 79th than anything else except the absurd MacMillan book.

[macwilkin]

No, not Hodden Grey. If you want to see the tartan in question, it is depicted in the Osprey Men-at-Arms book, "The Canadian Army at War" by Mike Chappell, plate C1. The tartan was worn by the 73rd Battalion, CEF, due to shortages of uniforms during 1914-15. The NCO depicted is wearing the khaki kilt with a matching glengarry, as previously depicted. It looks nothing like the swatches of Hodden Grey behind the TOR SCOTS and LS badges in my collection.

T.

[HarborSpringsPiper]

No, not Hodden Grey. If you want to see the tartan in question, it is depicted in the Osprey Men-at-Arms book, "The Canadian Army at War" by Mike Chappell, plate C1. The tartan was worn by the 73rd Battalion, CEF, due to shortages of uniforms during 1914-15. The NCO depicted is wearing the khaki kilt with a matching glengarry, as previously depicted. It looks nothing like the swatches of Hodden Grey behind the TOR SCOTS and LS badges in my collection.

T.

That is interesting and thanks for posting it. I also found this on p. 37 of The Canadian Corps in WWI http://books.google.com/books?id=s8Z...20kilt&f=false

By April 1917, khaki (or 'drab') kilts were issued to all Highlanders in reserve units in England, these being exchanged for tartan by men who were sent to a front line Highland unit as reinforcements.

[79thReproductions]

Oh... that evil photo of postwar 79th stuff that keeps popping up!! It's done more damage to recreating the uniform of the 79th than anything else except the absurd MacMillan book.

Agreed! Especially the "First Blood" book in the well known civil war series. It has the post war uniform marked as "The uniform the 79th Highlanders wore" Paraphrasing of course but it leads the reader to believe that the 79th wore that pre war.