Buyer Beware

[RockyR]

Since none of us (save Jerry at Stillwater) have visited any Pakistani or Chinese factories where highlandwear is produced, we can't comment on their labor practices with first hand knowledge.

What we CAN comment on is the blatant COPYING of propietary designs of L & M sporrans, Margaret Morrison sporrans, Broadsword Sporrans, Glen Esk Buckles, etc. from these factories. The bottom line is that it's extremely expensive for this small 'cottage industry' that we're in to legally go after a company in Pakistan or China. Many times, it's cheaper to just stop that design and come up with a new one... OR sue the companies SELLING the 'knock off' products in the US or UK (where the design can be copyrighted). While that doesn't hurt the PRODUCERS of the item, it does hurt the people who BUY from the producers.

We have this same problem with proprietary / Copyrighted tartans... look at the Isle of Skye (aka 'Bright Skye') tartan. It's a proprietary design that is COPIED in Pakistan / China. The owner, Rosemay Samois, successfully sued the Gold Brothers firm in the UK to stop them from illegally importing it and selling it. The problem is, it's still being produced in Pakistan and China.

THIS is why I copyright AND register all tartans USAK creates and watermark every product picture on our website. Scumbags think that just because a picture is 'out there' that it's free to steal and use. The sad thing is, it costs the LEGITIMATE businesses time and money while the theives can just dance around the law.

When people complain about companies from Pakistan or China, PLEASE don't automatically assume it's a 'race issue'. Often times, it's a Business ETHICS issue.

[slohairt]

Since none of us (save Jerry at Stillwater) have visited any Pakistani or Chinese factories where highlandwear is produced, we can't comment on their labor practices with first hand knowledge.

True, and I doubt that any of us will launch an international XMTS fact-finding mission anytime soon. On the other hand, I have no reason to suspect that the conditions concerning the production of Highland wear in that region (Sialkot) are any different than the rest of its manufacturing sector, particularly in the textile trade. If even a tenth of what I have read/studied about goes on there is true, it's enough for me to not want to buy it.

You're right, their business ethics are appalling as well, especially when it comes to misrepresenting their product with someone else's picture. I receive emails occasionally from potential customers saying things to the effect of "You sell this sporran for $125.00, while this vendor on ebay sells the same one for $20.00. Can I get a deal?" or "Why is that?" I try to explain that the sporran I am selling is the real deal from L&M and the one featured on ebay cannot possibly be the same one, but beyond that, what can you do?

[fluter]

You're right, their business ethics are appalling as well, especially when it comes to misrepresenting their product

In case anyone missed it, this is the firm that tried to sell us Sandy's doublet: they had a photo (taken from the Highland Clans site) of a one-of-a-kind, custom garment belonging one of our members.

That picture was taken down (I believe); but compare the rest to Highland Clans, and other familiar sites.

[slohairt]

In case anyone missed it, this is the firm that tried to sell us Sandy's doublet: they had a photo (taken from the Highland Clans site) of a one-of-a-kind, custom garment belonging one of our members.

That picture was taken down (I believe); but compare the rest to Highland Clans, and other familiar sites.

You mean Great Highlandwear, of course. Not me!

[beloitpiper]

This happens all over. Today, in fact, we hat a group of men in the store. As usual, I welcomed them and offered them a sample of whatever cheese they wanted. They were happy to try our cheese and ask where we got them only to reveal right before they left (without buying anything) that they were opening a new grocery store down the road and had to figure out what to buy.

I was livid.

I know capitalism is about competition, but does it mean that we have to be treacherous and unrepentant?

[auld argonian]

I know capitalism is about competition, but does it mean that we have to be treacherous and unrepentant?

Apparently it does now. Just ask any of the big financial firms that needed to get bailed out.

I do, however, have to agree with a point that Rocky seemed to be getting at...that this vendor sells wholesale to retailers like USA Kilts but somehow has no problem turning around and undermining their retail customers by selling directly to the public. I suppose that there's nothing wrong with that technically but it certainly seems a bit unethical to me.

Best

AA

[RockyR]

Apparently it does now. Just ask any of the big financial firms that needed to get bailed out.

I do, however, have to agree with a point that Rocky seemed to be getting at...that this vendor sells wholesale to retailers like USA Kilts but somehow has no problem turning around and undermining their retail customers by selling directly to the public. I suppose that there's nothing wrong with that technically but it certainly seems a bit unethical to me.

Best

AA

Point of clarification: We buy NOTHING from them or any company outside North America or the UK. I know you said "retailers like USA Kilts", but I wanted to clarify.

MANY companies sell wholesale AND retail. There's nothing inherently wrong with that either (sport kilt does, Utilikilts does, gold brothers do, gaelic themes does...). As a retail company, the only time I have a PROBLEM with that is when the price they're selling to me as a COMPANY is the same as the price they sell to INDIVIDUALS. There's no room for 'marjins', but now we're on a different topic than my initial point about 'truth in advertising'.

[Chas]

It has been said that people get the government that they deserve. Is it the same I wonder with other things. Do we get the kilt accessories that we deserve?

Are we the authors of our own misfortune? Is it because we want something for nothing, or at least, if not nothing, 'cheap'? Is it because we are willing to put up with lesser quality?

The question is, to whom is Great Highlandwear selling? They are selling to us. Or people like us. If we did not buy, how long could they stay in business?

It really is no good complaining about the moral ethics of business. Each man must look into their own heart and make a decision - I want a sheriffmuir, do I pay $150 or do I pay $450? Will my 150 keep more people alive in Pakistan than my 450 will in Scotland? Will anybody know? Will anybody care? Will I care?

I do not think there is an easy answer to any of these questions.

Regards

Chas

[RockyR]

*** this is not meant as an attack on Chas or anything... just a spirited debate.

It has been said that people get the government that they deserve. Is it the same I wonder with other things. Do we get the kilt accessories that we deserve?

Are we the authors of our own misfortune? Is it because we want something for nothing, or at least, if not nothing, 'cheap'? Is it because we are willing to put up with lesser quality?

The question is, to whom is Great Highlandwear selling? They are selling to us. Or people like us. If we did not buy, how long could they stay in business?

It's Caveat Emptor... do your homework (or just ask ANYONE up here to get a dozen opinions) on a company / product and you'll generally be more pleased with the outcome. If you WANT a cheap sporran and price is your determining factor and you know this going in, then you get what you pay for and that's fine.

It really is no good complaining about the moral ethics of business. Each man must look into their own heart and make a decision - I want a sheriffmuir, do I pay $150 or do I pay $450? Will my 150 keep more people alive in Pakistan than my 450 will in Scotland? Will anybody know? Will anybody care? Will I care?

I think it would be a HORRIBLE world where no one complained about / paid attention to business ethics. All products would simply be cheap immitations of each other and no one would bother to 'innovate' for fear that any money / effort they put into something would simply be copied and stolen. It's a difference of RIGHT and WRONG, simple moral decisions that we CAN easily make. You might not like the COST of that decision, but I didn't say it wasn't going to be tough, only a 'simple' decision.

Also, the company is not giving honest INFORMATION for the customer to make an informed decision... that's a problem in itself.

To alter your question in THIS instance where the picture AND text are clearly stolen: Would the $150 keep more theives alive in Pakistan than your $450 would keep an honest merchant alive in Scotland? Yes, but who do you want your money to go to?

Saying that business ethics don't matter is like saying Bernie Maydoff (spelling?) should have been allowed to get away with what he did... or Enron... or... where would it end?

I will continue to champion business ethics as the issue is this... when it comes down to it, all we REALLY have in life is our word. Once you break that, there's nothing.

[auld argonian]

Point of clarification: We buy NOTHING from them or any company outside North America or the UK. I know you said "retailers like USA Kilts", but I wanted to clarify.

Sorry about that...I guess that I didn't make that clear...as the young people say, "my bad".


Best

AA