Native American/First Nations tartans?

[dfmacliam]

Jim, the northeastern tribes did wear something that resembled a kilt.. As did the tribes of the southwest, used as dance kilts.. I personally know for a fact the Navajo's, Apache's, Hopi's, Pueblo's, and so on wore theirs for ceremonials..

Today, you will still see the kilt like item worn by many tribes, only in a ceremonial type situation.. I am active in the Native American powwows and I have been dancing for over 25 years now. I am a member of the Kiowa Tia Piah Gourd Society and I wear a black shawl wrapped around my waist (which again resembles a kilt) that signifies my membership in this Society..

You are correct in pointing out the hunting shirt that is belted would appear to be kilted... sounding simular to the old Irish Liene arguement too. For everyday wear, the breachclout is worn, but the breach was not a universal style, it's method of construction varied from tribe to tribe, region to region. Some were long, some short, and the combinations with the front and back. The width varies also some were narrow while others were considered aprons..

I am not looking to wear a kilt to identify my Native blood, as I said I have been dancing for many years, and to be honest, when I am fully dressed out, the money I have spent/ or items that were made, values exceed the cost of a 8 yd handsewn kilt with all the accessories.. I have no intention of blending cultures, this is about exploring what others have done... It would be interesting to see a tartan that is Native inspired.

[Tartan Hiker]

James,
Check this thread for instructions on how to post photos.

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/p...096/index.html

[james a. husky]

Bill... Thanks for posting that link! I'm a bit of a technophobe...

DaNeil...

I'm aware of the Southwest People and have seen modern representations (photos and paintings) of their dancing with something that looks like a short sarong albeit appearing to be made with a heavier fabric than a sarong (based on the way it hung). I've never seen anything that looked "kilted" or pleated. I guess I've found a new internet quest to spend some time on.

The only Dances I've attended have had primarily Eastern and Southeastern folks, with some Northern Plains people and the style of dress they bring with them. The same with Rendevous and Living History/Reenactment, the latter being solely Eastern and Southeastern influences (and that 1750's through 1783).

I've also never seen (either worn or depicted) anything from the Longhouse People that looked like a "kilt" to me. Do you have any pictures or sites that depict these?

I know that the variability of the breechcloth, leggings, and shirt combination is amazingly diverse to the modern eye and I've always felt it a marvelous clothing philosophy. Well adapted to the mission at hand... utilitarian, protection from elements, "Gettin' Jiggy" (i.e. attractiveness, style, and decoration), etc..

I'll always choose quills over beads, though. Some of the people who dance and who use all "traditional" materials, handweaving, brain-tanning, quills, etc., are near to carrying the monetary value of a fairly nice automobile on thier shoulders. Absolutely amazing levels of craftsmanship and dedication to the Dance and to Heritage!

Jim aka kiltiemon (PGR also)

[Bigkahuna]

"Many of the tribes of the Eastern woodlands wore a kilt like garment."

I'm going to disagree with that one!

Eastern woodland men usually wore a basic breechcloth held up by a belt. On the legs (given the inclination) would be worn leggings of wool or leather (like biker chaps but not with an integral waistband like modern biker chaps). The leggings would be tied to the belt (breechcloth belt) with ties.

Independent of the leggings and breechcloth (and worn in a manner that MAY give an illusion of kilt-like garment) would be a traditional long shirt (might be referred to as a "hunting shirt" or something like that. It would (just like the "sarks" worn by the scots during that period) be a long shirt that hung down to the lower thighs or just above the knee. It would often be belted or sashed around the waist giving the appearance of a "skirted" garment, when it (in reality) was just a long shirt. For more protection and heavier "shirt" or jacket would be worn over that and belted around the waist as the shirt was.

But they were not "kilts" and they were not pleated. Here's some pictures:

A 1920s Seminole long shirt:
C:\Documents and Settings\Jim Husky\My Documents\My Pictures\New Folder (2)\Seminole-garb_thumb.jpg

A long shirt attributed to Osceola:
C:\Documents and Settings\Jim Husky\My Documents\My Pictures\New Folder (2)\Seminole-garb_thumb.jpg

An image of Billy Bowles:
C:\Documents and Settings\Jim Husky\My Documents\My Pictures\New Folder (2)\seminole shirt billy bowlegsdtc_5_tif.jpg

And finally one of "Powell" or Osceola, himself:
C:\Documents and Settings\Jim Husky\My Documents\My Pictures\New Folder (2)\Seminole Osceola_Kenney_and_Hall.jpg

Notice in this one above, Osceola appears to be wearing a shorter length legging garter-tied just below the knee (though the leggings that tied from the hip were also used with (again, a matter of style) garters tied just below the knee and above the calf. Pat Wickman, in her work on Osceola, discovered that he liked to wear two pair of garters and by micro-inspection of the fibers and analysis of the knots he used to tie them discovered he was a very slight man. Quite the flashy dresser, however.

Still, no kilt!

Jim aka kiltiemon

First of all, I never said they wore it all the time. The breechclout was by far the most common form of dress. As to the examples you site, they are all Muskogee. They are not really considered Eastern Woodlands Peoples. The Iroquois, Hurons, Delawares and Cherokees all had an unbifurcated garment very much like the kilt. This is not a hunting shirt with a sash around the waist, but an actual kilt-like garment.

[cavscout]

It would be helpful if we could see some images of the "kilt-like garment". My google-fu has yet to turn up anything resembling a male skirt worn by the Cherokee. You frequently see long shirts or coats wrapped and belted but I've never seen what is being described above. I'd be very interested to see it.

***Edit***
Here's the only thing I've turned up

http://www.tuscaroras.com/graydeer/p...ldrenspage.htm
Kilts were traditionally made from leather and the edges fringed and decorated with porcupine quill-work. Kilts are secured around the waist by a sash. Today kilts can be made from cloth, usually wool in red or black is preferred. Also worn with a kilt, or breech cloth are leather, wool, or broadcloth leggings that are either attached by separate ties to a sash--or threaded through a sash or leather belt.

http://www.haudenosauneeconfederacy.ca/appearance.html
Men might also wear kilts made of soft skins.
(The male here appears to be wearing the garment we are discussing.)


http://www.cqsb.qc.ca/svs/434/fncloth.htm
Kilts, which look a lot like skirts, were occasionally worn by Iroquoian men on formal, dress-up occasions, but seem not to have been part of the day-to-day wear.


This appears to be focused on Northeastern Tribes. I've still found nothing about the Cherokee wearing a "kilt-like" garment.

[dfmacliam]

The Cherokee are an Iroquoian tribe, basically cousins to the Iroquois. At one time the Cherokee range covered a good part of the east coast, and the southern neighbors for the most part of the Iroquois Confederacy.

[cavscout]

Not to be argumentative but, that doesn't mean that Cherokee males wore a skirted garment like the Northeastern tribes mentioned above. Records I've read as old as the early 1700's go into great detail about the clothing they wore but none mention a skirt. Maybe it was phased out over a few hundred years in the southeast but seeing as there is no record of it among the Cherokee (that I've found) it seems to be a stretch to include the Cherokee with the Iroquois on this custom. If there are sources available I'd love to know more about them.