Sett Size

[M. A. C. Newsome]

*** what Paul said. The threadcount of the tartan is not hard and fast. It is meant to give an idea of proportions. So long as the proportions of the pattern remain visibly about the same, you can modify the thread count as needed.

To give a very, very simple example, the thread count of the Red & Black MacGregor tartan (aka Rob Roy) is often given as K=R. This means that the black threads equal the red threads. Now it doesn't matter if you weave it at K20 R20 or K40 R40 or K102 R102, visually the tartan pattern would be the same, just on different scales.

[Slowburn]

*** what Paul said. The threadcount of the tartan is not hard and fast. It is meant to give an idea of proportions. So long as the proportions of the pattern remain visibly about the same, you can modify the thread count as needed.

To give a very, very simple example, the thread count of the Red & Black MacGregor tartan (aka Rob Roy) is often given as K=R. This means that the black threads equal the red threads. Now it doesn't matter if you weave it at K20 R20 or K40 R40 or K102 R102, visually the tartan pattern would be the same, just on different scales.

And I only thought that the fabric weight was what determined the sett size i.e. the heavier the cloth the larger the sett. I suppose my preference would be for a larger sett to better show the pattern so a larger sett for a complex pattern and smaller for a more simple pattern. I do like the large sett on the example that started the thread.

[Spc. Scott]

I was going to mention Isle of Skye as well. I really like the look of the tartan but prefer the look of it in wool rather than the PV. I seem to remember reading that a lot of this is due to the size difference in yarns?

I guess my question is this: Is the yarn size that different between PV and 16oz wool or does a lot of the sett size difference due to changing the thread count?

[Paul Henry]

I was going to mention Isle of Skye as well. I really like the look of the tartan but prefer the look of it in wool rather than the PV. I seem to remember reading that a lot of this is due to the size difference in yarns?

I guess my question is this: Is the yarn size that different between PV and 16oz wool or does a lot of the sett size difference due to changing the thread count?

It so happens I am working on two different Isle of Skye kilts at the moment, both fabric from Marton Mills, but one in 16 oz the other in 13 oz.The photo is of both of them side by side
The thread size in the lighter weight one is a little bit finer, so that makes a smaller sett. Truth be told I much prefer the 16 oz , but I'm making what the clients wanted!

[fshguy]

As it is a matter of proportions, I feel that one should factor in the size of the individual wearing the kilt. My Robertson Red from Robert Noble has quite a smaller sett size than the typical offering. However, I feel it works better for my body type.


Conversely, my Wyvern sporran, while beautifully crafted, gets little wear because it feels disproportionately large for my frame.


It is somewhat humorous for me to read the frequent posts about individuals needing extra long garters, or barrel-chested jackets, when I seem to have just as much trouble locating items for my short stature. I’ve been hunting a second hand 42 Short tweed jacket for years.

[be da veva]

I’ve been hunting a second hand 42 Short tweed jacket for years.

I'm a 42r and I'm always finding 42s..... I've tried to make a 42s work for me, but it doesn't fit right or feel right....

[fshguy]

I'm a 42r and I'm always finding 42s..... I've tried to make a 42s work for me, but it doesn't fit right or feel right....

I would be very appreciative if you would share any new finds as they pop up.
Thanks!

[Newfoundlander]

As it is a matter of proportions, I feel that one should factor in the size of the individual wearing the kilt. My Robertson Red from Robert Noble has quite a smaller sett size than the typical offering. However, I feel it works better for my body type.


Conversely, my Wyvern sporran, while beautifully crafted, gets little wear because it feels disproportionately large for my frame.


It is somewhat humorous for me to read the frequent posts about individuals needing extra long garters, or barrel-chested jackets, when I seem to have just as much trouble locating items for my short stature. I’ve been hunting a second hand 42 Short tweed jacket for years.

To echo this, I think the size of the person certainly makes a difference. I was at a wedding not too long ago actually and remember contemplating this very thing. For the life of me, i can't find the picture I took though... you'll have to settle for my description I guess:

The Brides Father and Uncle are both "gentlemen of substance" shall we say, and both in their Anderson kilts. However, the Uncle has a much larger sett size, and the Father of the Bride had the "usual" sett size. Now, both looks very good I have to say, but the large sett did make the kilt look a bit more subtle than the normal intricate Anderson tartan. So, I think if subtle is what your after, larger sett sizes are great. The brides' sister's boyfriend also had an Anderson kilt on as well in the usual sett size, and being a much more slight lad, it seemed to suit his body type well.

Granted, I could be biased, because I like the intricate Anderson tartan in the usual set size.

My humble opinion only of course...

[Orvis]

As others have said, I look at sett size as a byproduct of cloth weight. The yarns in a 16 oz tartan are thicker than in a 13 oz, so the sett of a 16 oz will necessarily be larger than that of a 13 oz in the same tartan (see illustrations above). Reaching back into tartan history, I've noted that Wilson's & Sons had plaiding and they had kilting setts of the same tartans, and that the kilting setts seemed to be smaller. Figheadair has showed us photos of 18th c. plaids with really large setts (2-1/2 sets to a 27" width), including that tartan set of MacDougall curtains with the 20" sett. Perhaps he could enlighten us on whether there were differences in the sett sizes of kilting and plaiding cloth of the same tartan during the early days of tartan. Thank you in advance!

[Joshua]

A minor correction to KWD's post - my tartan is Marton Mills Davidson Ancient, not Modern. Comparing it with other items I have in Davidson that aren't PV (sash, scarf, and scrap tartan remnants from Lochcarron), I notice that on the Ancient from MM - the red grid line goes through the black and blue warp/weft, whereas on Davidson Modern from other mills it appears to only go through the Black warp/weft (I could be wrong on this one tho, not having the two in front of me). That would make the red "grid" appear much larger.

Mine is also in PV, and considering the MM PV line seems to be aimed more at the School Uniform market than kilts, I would understand the smaller set size.