Another Ebay sporran!!!

**Paul Henry** · 19th June 12, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by Tobus

I'll be honest here - this is the first I've ever heard of this hallmark law. But if I understand it correctly, this has only been a requirement since 1973? If that's the case, then I'm confused by your Rule 2. Wouldn't any antique silver have "fresh" hallmarks? How would anyone be able to ever buy antique silver if one ignored fresh hallmarks?

And besides, if the consumers treat hallmarks with suspicion, doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of the hallmarks?

Again, since I'm not familiar with this law or its history (and enforcement), I'm curious as to how this has played out in the UK over the last 39 years. If an old Scottish gentleman had an antique sporran stuffed away in his attic, was he legally required to dig it out and get it hallmarked? What happens when he dies in 2012 and his grandson finds it and decides to sell it? Assuming the grandson decides to do it the proper way and have it hallmarked so he can sell it as silver, are all the wise collectors going to treat it with suspicion just because it bears a fresh hallmark?

Actually There has been a statutory duty to mark precious metal since 1478, so it's reather an old system!

Have a look here

**creagdhubh** · 19th June 12, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by paulhenry

Actually There has been a statutory duty to mark precious metal since 1478, so it's reather an old system!

Have a look here

Very interesting indeed!

**MacLowlife** · 19th June 12, 05:52 AM

"Genuinely old" There is a rotisserie chicken in my refrigerator that is genuinely old. If I were king, I would make provision for a special hallmarking that allowed for an object to be marked as pure and then marked as clearly being not of recent manufacture- recent being described as five years. Or fifty years, maybe, provided the fifty years could be shown. Since I am not yet king ( campaign contributions now being accepted at www.KingMac.com ) I believe I would personally stamp this one "Caveat Emptor." Now off to clean out the fridge.

**artificer** · 19th June 12, 05:52 AM

My guess as to the age would be mid/late 1800s possibly early 1900s, based on the general construction. I think late 1700s is probably too early.

As to the Hallmark, if it were made privately (possibly of coin silver) with no intent to sell it, I could see it potentially not having a hallmark (perhaps the maker didn't want to pay the assayer's office for the service).

That said, I would in no way purchase this with the expectation of it actually being silver.

**Chas** · 19th June 12, 06:15 AM

I think some here might be missing the point. It was the law. Any silversmith, that did not have his wares assayed would lose his livelihood and end up in prison at least. His wife and children would starve to death or live on the charity of the parish.

Would you do it? So why should they have done it? When the punishments were far more severe. No Court of Human Rights in those days. For goodness sake - a man could be hung! So, would you do it?

If it was silver, it was hallmarked. No ifs, no buts, no maybes, no favours for friends, no 'just this once'.

No hallmark = not silver.

Regards

Chas

**SlackerDrummer** · 19th June 12, 07:36 AM

I certainly understand the legalities of the hallmark and I get that one cannot claim that something is silver if it is not properly hallmarked. As to the equation, however, that if there is no hallmark it is not silver, I would direct you to Shakespeare's Juliet: "What's in a name? that which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet...." Or as paraphrased by Andy Griffith, "You can change the name of a rose, but you can't do nothin' about the smell."

**Chas** · 19th June 12, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by SlackerDrummer

I certainly understand the legalities of the hallmark and I get that one cannot claim that something is silver if it is not properly hallmarked. As to the equation, however, that if there is no hallmark it is not silver, I would direct you to Shakespeare's Juliet: "What's in a name? that which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet...." Or as paraphrased by Andy Griffith, "You can change the name of a rose, but you can't do nothin' about the smell."

Juliet was 13, her lover was 17 and they both committed suicide. How that is relevant to silver, I don't know.

I do not know how it works in other parts of the world, but in the UK, if a person wants to buy a silver item he looks for the hallmarks. If he does not see any hallmarks, he puts the item down, because it is not what he is looking for. The item he is looking for, will (in the UK) have hallmarks. One equals the other.

I cannot say it another way. If it is silver, it will have hallmarks. Therefore, if there are no hallmarks, as far as the buyers are concerned, It Is Not Silver.

Juliet might be fooled, but she was only 13 - and dead!

Regards

Chas

**SlackerDrummer** · 19th June 12, 08:35 AM

My point, Chas, which you are intelligent enough to comprehend, is that silver is not a legal state. It is a chemical element. A hallmark identifies something as silver. A hallmark does not make it silver.

**Chas** · 19th June 12, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by SlackerDrummer

My point, Chas, which you are intelligent enough to comprehend, is that silver is not a legal state. It is a chemical element. A hallmark identifies something as silver. A hallmark does not make it silver.

Show me picture of something that has been hallmarked as silver and isn't.

Regards

Chas