soldiers or posers?

[The Q]

Interesting article, thank you Jim. My son is taller than the 4'10" minimum stated in the article, yet he was turned down on height not weight.

During one of their periodic fitness enforcement drives, the RAF tried to dismiss my wife for being underweight! Until she proved she was the same weight as when she joined up!

[Bruce Scott]

Interesting article, thank you Jim. My son is taller than the 4'10" minimum stated in the article, yet he was turned down on height not weight.

WO1 Frank Wittman
"[During WWI] the minimum height for eligibility to enlist in the Australian Imperial Force was
5 foot 2 inches (1.55 metres) but Wittman stood a mere 3 foot 8 inches tall (1.12
metres). What Frank Wittman lacked in height, he made up for in sheer perseverance
— he refused to be treated as undesirable because of his stature. He sought
the assistance of a general and a colonel to support his case to be accepted into
the AIF. His persistence paid off when, in May 1915, aged 26 years and 5
months, he was sworn into the Australian Imperial Force."

The full story is here: http://www.anzacday.org.au/justsoldiers/wittman.pdf

[jimintoronto]

Keeping with the theme of "short men in the military " I will point out this fellow.

Vernon Keogh was born in the USA. He joined the French Air Force at the beginning of the war in 1939. After the fall of France, he joined the RAF, as a fighter pilot. He was four feet 10 inches tall.

Here is a link to his biography. He had wooden blocks added to the rudder pedals of his personal aircraft. He was shot down over France.

link .https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon_Keogh

Jim B.

[brownbess]

During the Great War there was many many shortages of not only men but material. Your suspicions might be correct but if you look at the epaulettes the man have brass territorial unit markings on them. Meaning those men are more of a reserve unit then a frontline unit.Many things during the war also changed the sporran cut coats went by the wayside for the standard infantry jacket and also the kilts change in length they became shorter less yardage. There are lots of pictures posted on the Internet from the Great War of soldiers including Gordon's which do not look like they have the standard Gordon kilt on but they're wearing the Black Watch kilt. My great grandpa was in the 42nd Black Watch of Canada pre war/and during. I have a picture of him with a swagger stick. I know he was not a Sargent yet. Let's face it you have a right to be suspicious since it is eBay a little more research my disprove your suspicions.

[Pleater]

I believe that the reduction in height was never actually written into the requirement, but was an emergency measure easily inserted and then removed once conscription began to bring in more men.

My granddad did not meet even the reduced height, nor the weight, nor the chest measurement. He always had trouble getting shoes to fit him as he had size 4 feet, a boys size in length but with a fully developed adult arch and heel.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[OC Richard]

I think it's time for this photo



All of this talk of shorter men is so alien to me: my great-great grandfather was 6'4", my grandfather was 6'4", I'm 6'4", my daughter is 5'10". We all have big feet too: I wear a 14 or 15, my daughter wears a 12. Much of my life I've felt like that centre soldier above.

[OC Richard]

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but these photos that are up on Ebay now are too good to pass without comment.

As you know I love finding vintage "play dress-up" photos, especially when they're being sold on Ebay as authentic photos of Scottish soldiers.

Here's one of the old threads I did on these

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...e-photo-83745/

Here's a photo currently on Ebay. Soldier or poser? Why?



Here's another. Soldier or poser? Why?

[The Q]

I know little of the army of that time. But the first appears to be wearing a white jacket so possible, hot climate dress. But with a standard kd belt.
The second soldier? Appears to be straining his uniform somewhat so appears to be over weight and have a under size hat.
Add to that a purely gut feeling the first one has a more military bearing.

[blackwatch70]

I think both of them are posers notreal Scottish soldiers.

first one - Cameron kilt is wearing carelessly, sporran missed sporran badge, not plain glengarry (probably A&SH without cap badge at all), white drill jacket is OK, but stand-up collar should be fastened, the belt should be whitened and sit low, strange type of gaiters - Camerons should wear red/green check (I see sometning different on photo), and civvy spats... so after that I suppose this guy is real poser.

Second guy - real clown. Argyll's kilt with officers or NCOs panel wrongly worn on incorrect side of kilt (if photo does'nt reversed) , Argylls private's sporran, fly plaid in different tartan (for my opinion it looks very similar to Leslie tartan - KOSB?) and KOSB glengarry...

regards,
Mikhail

[Macman]

The first guy's hose diamonds don't line up, and they're not folded over correctly. The second guy's glen is too small (even by past standards) and the "fly plaid" . . . .