Scottish outlook on kilted Americans?

[Jock Scot]

Way to shoot and run Phil. I'm happy to let it die, as long as you're prepared to concede it's my cultural inheritance every bit as much as it is yours.

With the greatest of respect Nathan. The only difference as far as I can see between Phil and you Nathan is that Phil is a Scot and you are a Canadian with Scots ancestry, in other words, you are a Canadian. And that is a distinction that is a world apart as far as general Scots thinking goes.

[jfraser]

Och! Not to destroy life much further, but it's been my observation that the inhabitants of a lot of places don't know the history of their own place either! What a shame; how unfortunate!

Is it like that in Canada as well, I fear it must be a world wide problem? Anyway, Burns had a wee verse that I like

O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion:
What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us,
An' ev'n devotion!

Until then, I guess we have all just got to carry on and do the best with what we have got, warts and all. Eventually, the result of a robust education system might win through in the end.

[TheOfficialBren]

To touch on this here is an example. I am from Southern California. Most (probably about 9/10 people in all seriousness) don't know ANYTHING about California history.

They might know the gist of the gold rush of 1849 and that California joined the Union in 1850 (under VERY shady circumstances) but beyond that they probably know next-to-nothing else. Even a lot of the indigeonous peoples are often a bit hazy about the history.

A LOT more has happened in California than the Conquistadors, the missions, and the gold rush.

Father Bill's statement rings true, at least in my neck of the woods.

[Singlemalt]

With the greatest of respect Nathan. The only difference as far as I can see between Phil and you Nathan is that Phil is a Scot and you are a Canadian with Scots ancestry, in other words, you are a Canadian. And that is a distinction that is a world apart as far as general Scots thinking goes.

Jock yes Nathan is a Canadian, as am I, and I hope he is as proud of it as I am. However, he is also a MacDonald, or MacNeil, or Cameron.....No one ever required he give that up. No one searched his ancestors luggage to make sure they were not taking a kilt or indeed their culture with them when they left. Obviously some in Scotland find this uncomfortable, I know lots who don't. You have every right to your opinion but I really wonder how "general" it is.

[Nathan]

With the greatest of respect Nathan. The only difference as far as I can see between Phil and you Nathan is that Phil is a Scot and you are a Canadian with Scots ancestry, in other words, you are a Canadian. And that is a distinction that is a world apart as far as general Scots thinking goes.

With the greatest respect Jock, that may be the case as far as general Scots thinking goes, but that's why I bothered to speak up - to show you a different perspective. Although, I have to say, that I've had many wonderful encounters with people from Scotland who come to Cape Breton every year for the Celtic Colours festival and who rave about how wonderful it is to see a living corner of Gaelic culture in the New World. I'm an ethnic Scot. I'm a proud Canadian and so were my Gaelic speaking Canadian ancestors who fought in two world wars to protect Britain wearing the kilt. I too put on that uniform, speak that language, dance those steps and sing those melodies. I do it because that's what we've always done here for generations. There are people with Scots ancestry but who are completely assimilated (I mean Elvis Presley had some Scots ancestry but was culturally American...) don't confuse me with one of them.

You're right though, I am Canadian. A Canadian Scot like our first Prime Minister John A. MacDonald. A Canadian Scot like those MacDonnells who lit the fiery cross, sounded the pibroach and ran through Glengarry County to rally the clan together during the war of 1812. A Canadian Scot like Buddy MacMaster, Ashley MacIssaac, Natalie MacMaster, Dan R. MacDonald, Mary Jane Lamond, Neil Dickie, John Allen Cameron, Alasdair MacLeod (Google them).

And Now every Scottish piper knows how to play Clumsy Lover and Brenda Stubbert - tunes written by Canadians. Yes indeed. I'm a Canadian Scot and I guess that makes me pretty lucky, kilt and all.

Alba agus Canada gu brath !

[Domehead]

I always love how "With all due respect..." is often followed by something that seeks to distinguish, or in other words - divide, rather than unite.

I ask repeatedly of our Native Scots a simple questions: When my Grandparents and their families left Perthshire (Breadalbane, Methven & Cleish) and Fife (Kelty & Cowdenbeath), were they required to leave their culture behind?
If not, were they allowed to raise their kin with that culture?
If not, then I expect our Native Scots to say to my Grandparents face, "Your grandson is American and should not partake".

Instead, what I read on here is, "We Scots are too polite to say anything directly, however some of us feel elements of our culture should stay home...no matter what your claim may be"

Makes no sense to me; isn't very inclusive; isn't particulalrly respectful & doesn't serve to purpetuate the culture.

But hey, one thing I am constantly reminded of here is I am, in fact, NOT Scottish. An exercise I find amusing because my family never reminded me of it, and presented me with my father's sgain dubh, Highland dress being a vestige of our family & I being a part of & raised in that family.

[Jock Scot]

Jock yes Nathan is a Canadian, as am I, and I hope he is as proud of it as I am. However, he is also a MacDonald, or MacNeil, or Cameron.....No one ever required he give that up. No one searched his ancestors luggage to make sure they were not taking a kilt or indeed their culture with them when they left. Obviously some in Scotland find this uncomfortable, I know lots who don't. You have every right to your opinion but I really wonder how "general" it is.

There is an expression that we use over here, perhaps you know it? "There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see". I really do get the impression that many of you non Scots are just not wanting to hear, let alone accept what you are being told, even when those replying have been asked to. I am sorry, but that is the impression I get.

Well the Scots that have contributed to this thread are, I think, in broad agreement over this. They undoubtedly differ on the detail and that is hardly surprising. As to the rest of Scotland I think the views voiced by the Scots here are fairly general in my experience and it appears other Scots here are well aware of it too, but I can hazard a guess, and yes it is a guess, that some Scots who don't give a damn if there are more pipe bands per square acre in Wherever than Scotland, or, there are more Doric speakers per square inch in the Outer Universe than Aberdeen. It is just not something they care about.I suspect that if they could be bothered to read this thread many of the indifferent might say at the end of it -----"And what has Canada/Australia/Outer Mongolia/wherever, got to do with us? Thats of no interest to us, now can you pass me the vinegar?"

[Father Bill]

Willful blindness cuts two ways in any standoff. I also learned in almost forty years of dealing with interpersonal politics that those who say "I'm not the only one who thinks so" are often one of at most, a small group. A very small group. I don't see very many black and white opinions here, but I hear a lot of very hurtful shots coming across the bow.

Time to take a deep breath fellows, and think of using a lot more tact.

[Jock Scot]

With the greatest respect Jock, that may be the case as far as general Scots thinking goes, but that's why I bothered to speak up - to show you a different perspective. Although, I have to say, that I've had many wonderful encounters with people from Scotland who come to Cape Breton every year for the Celtic Colours festival and who rave about how wonderful it is to see a living corner of Gaelic culture in the New World. I'm an ethnic Scot. I'm a proud Canadian and so were my Gaelic speaking Canadian ancestors who fought in two world wars to protect Britain wearing the kilt. I too put on that uniform, speak that language, dance those steps and sing those melodies. I do it because that's what we've always done here for generations. There are people with Scots ancestry but who are completely assimilated (I mean Elvis Presley had some Scots ancestry but was culturally American...) don't confuse me with one of them.

You're right though, I am Canadian. A Canadian Scot like our first Prime Minister John A. MacDonald. A Canadian Scot like those MacDonnells who lit the fiery cross, sounded the pibroach and ran through Glengarry County to rally the clan together during the war of 1812. A Canadian Scot like Buddy MacMaster, Ashley MacIssaac, Natalie MacMaster, Dan R. MacDonald, Mary Jane Lamond, Neil Dickie, John Allen Cameron, Alasdair MacLeod (Google them).

And Now every Scottish piper knows how to play Clumsy Lover and Brenda Stubbert - tunes written by Canadians. Yes indeed. I'm a Canadian Scot and I guess that makes me pretty lucky, kilt and all.

Alba agus Canada gu brath !

Thank you Nathan! I just wish others from outwith Scotland can see that you are , in your case, a Canadian.

Make no mistake Canadians are held in high regard as a Nation by the Scots and the UK as a whole. As are other parts of the Commonwealth. Shared history, shared ancestry play a part in that and I am quite sure that no-one in Scotland would even consider denying that if they thought about it and of course the sacrifices made during the last centuary are never ever forgotten. But Canadians/Australians/ South Africans/Americans/Wherevers you are, but not Scots.

[Babyvett]

Okay, my 2 cents (and maybe then some).. Take it or leave it..

I lived for nearly a year in Edmonton, Alberta Canada.. During that time, my American dollar was spent in the Canadian economy. I bought and wore Root clothing, Danier leather, ect. Did this make me a Canadian?? Definitely not. Did buying these items make it as if I were "playing Canadian"? Again, I say No.. I liked the particular items I bought, wore them because I liked them and that was it.. I was still American and never claimed to have been anything as such.. I view other nationalities wearing the kilt as much the same - do I think my husband wearing a kilt is him trying to pretend he is a Scots? No way, he's the same good ole southern boy I married, born in raised in the States and serving a country that he is extremely proud of (even if he doesn't like the way things are being run at the moment).. He does not want to BE a Scotsman but he does appreciate the country and the people.

Maybe its an American thing.. In a general time line compared to others, this country is a new country. And it has always had the distinction of being "the melting pot", so to speak. Those who live here will know what I am talking about when I say there is a movement of understanding and appreciating the "heritage" of which one derives. It seems almost every month, if not every week, is a "such and such appreciation" moment. Whether it be Black History, Latin American appreciation, Japanese American Appreciation, ect. That's why you see so many different festivals at any given time in a short span of time - people want to know where they came from maybe because Americans didn't COME from here - unless you're of Native American decent. That's not to say that I note myself as an Irish-American, Welch-American, German-American, whatever.. I am an American.. (Or, if I want to be slightly arrogant, I am a TEXAN which by right is its own title.. haha) But as an American, it is interesting to find where my ancestors were from before coming to this country, or to find WHY they came here to begin with. Also, I do find that much of our heritage is lost in the fabric of time. Where at one time, families kept large bibles that recorded family history and the elder family members lived among the grandchildren and told stories of their lives and history, we no longer see that. Between families living large distances between each other, divorces that rip families apart and just general lack of a younger generation appreciating the wealth of information an older generation holds, family histories are lost.


My husband is a prime example of this - both his Great Grandparents and G-G grandparents died at young ages, causing family members to be adopted. His history was lost until I spent the last 2 years researching. He believed his family was of German and Irish decent because that was what he was told, yet three sides of his family were lines of prominent Scottish clans (Campbell, Barnett, Sutherland, and Bruce). The only exception of his heritage being his grandfather who's family were English. Absolutely no German or Irish in his blood and that's taking his lines back into the 1300's. But, his family had always assumed and passed that erroneous information down the line.. Nobody thought to question that information, again probably because my husband is the first one to actually care to find out and that was only because of my doing my own ancestry and sparking his interest.

He never knew his Scottish heritage and it was a surprise to him. So, he decided to buy a kilt, not because he wants to "play Scot" but because he wanted something material that he could possess in order to establish that tie. Prior to finding the link, there was NO WAY he would have worn a kilt. Unlike many on this board, I have a feeling this will be his only kilt and it won't be something worn on a regular basis. He's hoping to wear it to Scottish society events a few times a year as part of his heritage and an extension of who he is, not as a costume or as an everyday article of clothing. To him, its much like his military uniform - he wears his uniform when its appropriate but does not wear it out and about just to wear it and to get attention. I'm glad he did not read this thread, as I have a feeling he might be writing Matt Newsome asking if he can back out of his purchase feeling somewhat disheartened that those people he wants to honor might instead laugh at him for doing so.