tartans more easily accepted than non-tartan?

[Mike n NC]

Any non-clan, general tartan offered by any of the casual USA kiltmaers like Sport Kilts and USA Kilts, and there must be 50+ of them

Here are a bunch of registered tartans that I can happily choose from as well.

US Navy tartan (my Dad was a navy veteran), a dark, formal looking tartan.

The United States tartan is a beautiful dark blue tartan with red and white stripes.... very elegant.

California State Tartan, based on the Muir Family Tartan. I really like this tartan.

The California Dept. of Forestry, the California "Firefighters" and the California Highway Patrol all have registered tartans. The Forestry tartan is strong with natural green colors, and I really like it. I'm rather the outdoorsman, and spend a lot of time hiking in the forests of my sttate, and the Forest Dept.'s tartan would be a good match for me.

All the Irish County Tartans, the All-Ireland Green and Blue tartans. I quite like the All-Ireland blue.

And were I to follow on with this line of thinking, my questions would have to be;

What is the connection to the proud herritage of the Highland Regiments?
What is the connection to the; fire service, forrest service, highway patrol?
Being retired Navy myself, is your father's service a close enough connection to entitle you to that tartan? Should you choose the Polaris tartan, what is the connection to the submarine community?
District tartans? Are you or your family from that area?

And on and on, you see how it can go. If one looks hard enough, a question could be raised about most any tartan. I see the choice of a tartan to be something decided on by yourself, not made because of someone's opinion of the moment. There are several members of this board that claim absolutely no celtic herritage yet are quite happy and proud to wear tartan kilts.

My family can lay claim to Austin, Chattan, MacPhearson and MacQueen, I choose to wear the MacQueen for my own reasons but own several other kilts in "unrelated" tartans.

I know there are some kilt wearers that will strongly disagree with me on this view, that feel one must be "entitled" to wear a particular tartan. I find through research, common sense and the views of several tartan "authorities", the opposite to be true.

At the risk of being misunderstood (again) I will repeat my mantra: Wear what you like, like what you wear.

Mike

[Rufus]

I agree, I only wear a tartan kilt to work, one customer asked a co-worker,"when did you start to hire crossdressers"? so if they think a tartan kilt is cross dressing, what would they think of my leather kilt just saves a bit of hassle.

Back to Alan's original question, I think Phil summed it up pretty well. I think the tartan vs. plain kilt thing depends on where you live, and prevailing attitudes in that area. I live where the necks are red, the belt buckles are the size of dinner plates, and the Wranglers look like body paint. I barely get by in a tartan kilt. My friend doesn't wear his Utilikilt very often because of all the crap he gets for it. And no, he's not some wimpy crybaby; he's a former Army Ranger.

If I lived somewhere else, I'd probably get a plain kilt, though it'd probably be a tweed or plain coloured wool kilt. That's just me though. I guess my suggestion is to kind of feel out what attitude others might have to a plain kilt in the area you live, if you can.

[phil h]

I agree, I only wear a tartan kilt to work, one customer asked a co-worker,"when did you start to hire crossdressers"? so if they think a tartan kilt is cross dressing, what would they think of my leather kilt just saves a bit of hassle.

Back to Alan's original question, I think Phil summed it up pretty well. I think the tartan vs. plain kilt thing depends on where you live, and prevailing attitudes in that area. I live where the necks are red, the belt buckles are the size of dinner plates, and the Wranglers look like body paint. I barely get by in a tartan kilt. My friend doesn't wear his Utilikilt very often because of all the crap he gets for it. And no, he's not some wimpy crybaby; he's a former Army Ranger.

If I lived somewhere else, I'd probably get a plain kilt, though it'd probably be a tweed or plain coloured wool kilt. That's just me though. I guess my suggestion is to kind of feel out what attitude others might have to a plain kilt in the area you live, if you can.

while outside of work I wear any kilt I feel like wearing at the time, with no problems.but at work I think "why invite trouble"?

[Pittsburgh Kilts]

...but at work I think "why invite trouble"?
---------------
because I can

Hey Phil -- I guess your tag line gave you the answer to your (rhetorical) question!

[phil h]

...but at work I think "why invite trouble"?
---------------
because I can

Hey Phil -- I guess your tag line gave you the answer to your (rhetorical) question!

not sure about your point.
I wear a kilt because I can,and I do.

[Alan H]

My question for you, Alan, is this:

Are you wearing a kilt to be accepted, or to be your own man?

It's a good question.

I'm my own man, no matter what I wear. My aelf-identity doesn't depend on articles of clothing that I put on my body. Therefore pants are no better than kilts, but the converse is also true....

.....kilts are no better than pants.

At least when the issue under consideration is Alan H's self-identity.

The way I see it, kilts are not "more manly" than pants. Pants are not "more manly" than kilts. They're pieces of clothing, one of which has a particular historical background based in a particular country/countries. The general issue of what is, or is not "more manly" is kind of boring to me, actually. I've skippered sailboats, alone, offshore in 50 knot gales. I've hiked the Pacific Crest Trail from one end to the other, alone. I've bottle-fed my 4 month-old nephew and then turned right around, wahsed my hands and changed the oil in my car. I do the laundry around my house. I also am the one who replaces windows and paints the exterior siding and install doors. I think I've proved to myself that my "manliness" is not in question, at least by me.

However, I'm married. While I seriously bristle at the notion of my wife "telling me what to do".... and believe me, we've have a load of conflict over that, nonetheless it's not unreasonable, nor is is "unmanly" to take my spouses concerns into consideration. I mean, if I really don't give a flying Phonecian flamdanger what she thinks or how she feels, then that's not much of a marriage, is it? The same goes goes the other way, and of course were my parents still alive, I'd be *concerned* with their feelings on the issue. I'd be *concerned* about my children's feelings on the issue, if I had children. They don't "tell me what to do", but certainly if someone I care for has misgivings about the kilt issue, it's not a slur on my manhood to take some time and spend some energy addressing those feelings.

Being overly concerned with w3hat everyone thinks is not a healthy thing. Taking pleasure in showing everyone that you don't care that flying Phonecian flamdanger what they think isn't very healthy either. If someone wears a kilt because it's their way of basically "giving the finger" to anyone and everyone they might come across, well then I'd suggest that person might have some issues that have nothing whatsoever to do with the nature of the article of clothing they belt around their hips.

There's a line between being your own person, and being arrogantly unconcerned with what anyone else thinks. I, like most people, try to walk that line like a decent and caring human being, which I think pretty much everyone here does, as well.

[Alan H]

A quite fascinating series of posts, for together they highlight so many of the problems and questions that concern us all, at this time when the kilt is manifesting itself in many new ways.

To illustrate this, there are many who see the 'man + tartan = kilt' and so ok: and there are others who see the 'man + not tartan = skirt' and so questionable.

Just as there are many who feel that a clan tartan should only be worn by an actual member of that clan; which of course contradicts the views of many others.

I could go on, citing such things: rather it is an interesting time, and I look with interest to what the future will bring. My hope being that a spirit of tolerence will prevail, and men can have the ability to dress as they please.

James

EXCELLENT.... and Amen!

[Alan H]

I agree that nationalistic feelings should be respected, which is why I try to wear the kilt in a becoming manner, and not just as a mix-n-match fashion fad. However, its easy to out-Scot the Scots themselves as far as tartans go. I know Scots who have multiple kilts and gladly wear one another's tartans (Hamish wrote about this as well) and have been told by Scots in the know that clan tartans are a touchy subject only at a clan gathering, which is a context in which I wholly agree great care should be taken not to offend clan sensibilities.

Those who feel awe for tradition (and yes, the 19th century was long enough ago to justify using that term in relation to clan tartans)should follow their instincts and wear non clan-tartan kilts. Those who feel less restricted by tradition can wear what they like, but its classier if they know and respect the feelings and history behind highland dress.

We must all follow our own inner light, don't ye think?

Yup. Wear what you want, treat people and their histories and their sacrifices with respect, and carry on!!

[Alan H]

BTW, I very strongly subscribe to this notion...

If I wear a tartan with a particular significance, say a clan or a district or the US Navy or Leatherneck tartans, then as has come up here over and over again, I should KNOW my tartan. I should know what I am wearing...understand it, be able to tell people about it, appreciate it for what it represents. That's the measure of respect, if you ask me. It shows a bit of class, and besides, it's fun and I'll learn something.

If I want to wear a generic plaid, say something from Sportkilts or USA Kilts that's just something they found that hangs well, has a good weight and hand to it, but means nothing, then who cares? It's a piece of cloth that means nothing beyond its own existance.

[Alan H]

And ONE More....

almost NOBODY has actually commented on the actual question I posed at the top of the thread. That is, are tartan kilts with "scottish" accessories more generally and easily accepted by the general public than kilts which are obviously NOT Scottish in origin.

Note...you may know your tartan kilt is made up of cloth that's a generic pattern with no significance, but Joe Bob and Betty Sue only see "plaid" and assume "Scotland".

The fact that there's only been one or two responses in this thread to that question is interesting.