What makes a Scot?

**Oldhiker** · 6th January 08, 02:09 PM

It is simply a matter of what period of time in history.

National Geographic is undertaking a huge project to map all of our migrations
National Geographic: The Genographic Project
https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/

I have been lucky to be able to trace my path from where I was born in Indiana back to Ireland in 1650 prior to that Scotland back to 1300 and prior to that back to Ireland. I have a Celtic Haplotype which we can say that my ancestors were in western europe and then tracing back to the origins of man. Depending on your beliefs that was the garden of eden or that tree the first monkey climbed down from and decided to walk upright. Some might think my Hoosier hertigage has taken me a step closer back to that tree but I prefer to call myself of Scottish heritage who now resides in the Pacific NW of the US. I don't deny those other locations of my ancestors it is just a preference.

**Nervous Jock** · 6th January 08, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by beloitpiper

I saw it on TV. And just like in the Rugby World Cup, I was at a pub with the boys from Glasgow, all of us in kilts, jumping around, screaming at the French fans on the other side of the pub. Glorious. The Scots at the pub that night didn't care what I called myself. We were all there for one thing: to support Scotland, a country we all loved. Why can't more people be like that?

Well there you go you have it in your heart

As a slight aside we were at the Scotlan Italy game in the RWC we were pretty much surrounded by Italians except for a few shackledraggers in front of us. They were taking pictures of us singing FoS because they hadn't
seen an anthem sung as passionately for a while.

**pipesndrumsnun** · 6th January 08, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Nervous Jock

Well there you go you have it in your heart

Hey, there, Nervous Jock...
You summed it up PERFECTLY!! It is a matter of heart!!

Thanks!

**Galician** · 6th January 08, 08:09 PM

I can't help wondering why people from a particular locale have such a hard time accepting the descendants of those who left that land. I see it in Latin culture as well.

Do you who still live in Ireland/Scotland/England/.... define sharing in the culture of a land as only the culture YOU know and share NOW? Is the culture of the 17th/18th/19th-centuries any less Irish/Scottish/...... than what you have now? And do the heirs of those cultures who have developed in different settings have any less claim to call their heritage Irish/Scots/etc.?

**slohairt** · 6th January 08, 10:10 PM

I agree. It is difficult to understand sometimes. I think this type of thinking is a relatively recent phenomena. If this discussion occurred 100 years ago I think there would very different views expressed on both sides of the pond. The days of mass emigration from the U.K. and Ireland to the New World are long gone. The people left behind feel less of a connection.

**Coemgen** · 6th January 08, 11:45 PM

Whenever people ask if I'm Scottish or Irish or whatever, I simple reply:

"I'm American by birth, Irish by blood, and Scottish by the Grace of God."

**Gryphon noir** · 6th January 08, 11:55 PM

Who is a Scot?
If your forbears are Scottish, then you have every right to be proud of that heritage. One of the things I enjoy as a Canadian is the way many of us define our background with a hyphen.* The idea of the cultural mosaic [as opposed to the melting pot concept] celebrates cultural diversity. I have no problem referring to myself as Scots-Canadian any more than my partner would about her being Chinese-Canadian. It's an easy 'shorthand' even though it may prompt further questions: "..but your surname is English, isn't it?" Yes, it is--I'm also of English background, and if you go back far enough, I guess I'd have to say I'm a ....what? ...try: Hyberno-Saxon-Jute?

Seriously, I don't think we should get too hung up about definitions.

As my namesake [my middle name is Healey after liturgical composer Dr. Healey Willan] is famously quoted as saying:
"I am English by birth, Irish by extraction, Canadian by adoption, and Scotch--by absorption."

*I once heard a man ranting on a bus about all the 'foreigners' around him. When he made the mistake of demanding what nationality they were, they all said proudly "Canadian!" When a transit supervisor escorted the man off the bus, he commented about deporting him back to Moronia.

**Bugbear** · 7th January 08, 12:11 AM

Hmmm, Gryphon noir, I have been watching a blending of culture and... genetics or race in my own family and my friends families: A kind of melting pot. I have decided to not have any children, so that leaves my sister's family and my niece to carry on the family genetics from my father's side. My sister's son is partly hispanic or latino, both culture and race, and so is my niece. If I go back one generation to my grandfather, or even my father, that would be unspeakable. My father has had to accept this blending, it's still very painful to him, and from here on out his family line is at least part hispanic. I think this blending is good.

Perhaps one day, we will be so blended that we are all everything because we all came from all of us. might be the big plann... Nice and confusing, but that's the melting pot. We could pick who we are and change it like hair styles. LOL! If we're just talking culture blending, that's being done right here and now as we talk.

*******
BTW
My mother's side of the family traces back to Scotland and Ireland, The Shaws. My father's side traces back a couple of gens, and then we just don't know. It might be that the blending has been going on all along, LOL!, I sure do have a bunch of half relatives out there that I've never met.

**Makeitstop** · 7th January 08, 03:46 AM

Well, if you go back far enough, we are all cousins, just some more distant than others. On the one hand that makes issues of diversity and race and ethnicity all the more irrelevant. But on the other hand, that is a creepy thought when you realize everyone you have ever been so much as attracted to is actually a relative

I think a lot of people want to identify with a culture and heritage other than that of the nation they were born in because they were raised that way by parents and grandparents who also identify with the old country. That seemingly distant cultural heritage is part of the much more immediate family identity.

But I think a lot of people also do it because they want an identity, and to have their own culture and heritage. I think part of why a lot of people in America do it is because it can be easy to feel like we don't have a cultural identity of our own. Part of living in the melting pot is being exposed to elements of other cultures, and people who bring their own heritage in. If you belong to a group whose culture is already well mixed in, it ceases to be as unique and special by comparison. So people who want that cultural identity look to where their ancestors came from and try to adopt more of that culture, especially those elements which are not common around here.

It's the same reason a lot of suburban middle class white kids want to identify with rappers, a subculture that is based on poor, black, urban criminals. Despite the fact that my cousin lives in the country, and comes from middle class white family, and wouldn't last five minutes in the ghetto, he identifies with all that crap anyway. It makes about as much sense as people identifying themselves as being part of a culture that they are a dozen generations removed from and have not personally experienced.

Of course, I say people should feel free to adopt any part of any culture they like with no need to justify it through lineage or circumstances. Just be honest about it.