I apologize if this is innap, I need to release steam

**mbhandy** · 7th February 08, 08:45 AM

Jamie Take Riverkilt's advice he has been through this and there was lots of advice on his posts.

From the Mts. of Utah

MrBill

**Alan H** · 7th February 08, 11:52 AM

I will be curious as to the outcome of your meeting.

Good luck.

**Rex_Tremende** · 7th February 08, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by JamieKerr

My anger and hurt comes from the fact that I have worked in this office for 5 years now, and this is the first time I have ever been degraded in this fashion (knowingly). The real sting is the result of thinking that I knew these people, and that I could enjoy a certain level of acceptance amongst them.

Originally Posted by JamieKerr

I have to view this situation for what it is; discrimination.

Jamie -

After having considered your situation periodically through the day, if I may suggest - gay man (sorry Mike) to bi-gendered person - that you have enjoyed a considerable amount of leeway at the office until now. One complaint made known to you is not a sign of discrimination, however gracelessly the comments were delivered. In fact, if your supervisor merely delivered the message but did not ban your kilts (and skirts), I'd say you continue to enjoy a more tolerant workplace than most.

Speaking from experience, if you start from the position of "discrimination" every time someone looks at you cross-eyed, you will always be a victim. This approach creates the illusion of more conflict than there really is. Ultimately it is counter-productive, and, frankly, it is the position of weakness. Real discrimination would have been if you'd have been fired at the first sign you were not cut from the same mold as everyone else.

From a distance, there is little difference between the origins of the crass comments of strangers and the expressions of discomfort from the people you know. Largely, your coworkers have had the good sense to keep their negative comments to themselves. Consider that the person who made the comments never intended them to reach you in the first place, but by raising the issue of some perceived employee equity, she created a situation that the supervisors were stuck with trying to resolve. So it was the first time you heard anying about one person's true feelings. Do not succumb to the temptation to mistake your hurt feelings for discrimination where none really exists. As others have suggested, it sounds like she had her own agenda.

I cannot think of a job that does not require we check some part of ourselves at the door. How much we check depends on the job and the office culture, but with patience and understanding some aspects are open for negotiation. At my office, for instance, a bank with a reputation of being somewhat stodgy and dour, a bi-gendered-identified individual has successfully lobbied for the right to come to work as either a woman or a man whenever he chooses. He accomplished this through open communication with her coworkers, and patient and steady (and sometimes emotionally painful) lobbying of the powers that be.

Your situation today is nothing more than an indication that you have work to do to help you and your team understand each other better. I hope you will be able to find common ground, to continue to wear whatever you determine is appropriate and enjoy a lot of success in your job.

Regards,
Rex.

**Panache** · 7th February 08, 06:08 PM

Jamie,

I think that Rex has just offered some very good advice and keen insight into a complicated situation (as usual).

I hope we can hear about your positive kilt related experiences in other threads

Cheers

Jamie

**Panache** · 7th February 08, 06:09 PM

To All,

I do wish to note that our forum is really about kilts. I can see how this thread is headed away from discussing kilts towards gender issues, workplace discrmination, and other rather non-kilt related subjects.

I would ask on behalf of the Mod Squad that perhaps further discussion of the aforementioned issues be done by PM.

After All, it's X Marks the Scot! Let's keep it about the kilts.

Respectfully

Jamie

**Makeitstop** · 7th February 08, 12:37 PM

It's crap like this that makes me glad the constitution guarantees the right to face your accuser. If only that applied to personal disputes and office politics. I've always felt that if someone has a problem with me they should either deal with me personally or just shut up and move on with their life.

My advice is simply to stay calm. Getting upset tends to lead to bad decisions and will not help your case. If you remain composed and dignified yet firm and resolute, it will contrast well with your accuser's obviously irrational state of mind.

A few other thoughts:

I think she has point; She should be able to wear jeans. Really, why not? However the argument does not work in reverse. If their is a policy preventing her from wearing jeans, it does not follow that you should be robbed of your right to wear a kilt.

I do think that it could be that they simply do not see the difference between a kilt and a skirt. If you have worn skirts and kilts, it can blur the line in the minds of many people.

I think their concern over your job performance is entirely understandable. If your kilt is offensive to some people (irrational as that may be) it could potentially cause problems. The fact that you didn't know that your coworker was bothered (and that you still don't know who it is) may also hurt your case, as it shows you may not always be able to tell who will be bothered and who won't. I'm not saying they are right, only that their arguments are not completely without merit and should be carefully considered before you respond.

I had a situation with a friend who could not handle my kilt, and called it "cross-dressing with an excuse" and it nearly ruined our friendship. By trying to remain understanding and forgiving (while not letting her dictate my clothing choices) I managed to salvage our relationship, and she is getting used to the kilt bit by bit. The key was understanding that she had a problem, and that this wasn't simply malice on her part. This may not be applicable in your case (especially since you don't know who it is) I don't have enough information to say what's going on in her head, but it is a good idea to keep in mind that she probably doesn't choose to be ignorant and irrational.

**MacDanar** · 7th February 08, 01:05 PM

I'm sorry to hear of this situation. I hope everything works out for the better, and everyone involved learns something positive as a result.

That being said, it still surprises me that there are people out there who, upon seeing a man in a "skirt," do not stop and think, "hey, maybe it's a kilt," even if they are not well-versed in identifying a kilt. I guess I underestimate the intelligence of the general public, but I would still think that the average person would know that kilts do exist, and not just in Scotland.

from beautiful central Kentucky! Try to stay warm.