Elizabethan bonnet

[Paul]

OK. I am more than willing to accept that. But then, my original question still stands. If the Scots don't call that time period the (first) Elizabethan era, what do they call it? I have no wish to be argumentative; if there is another expression then it should, quite rightly, be used.

Regards

Chas

Technically her reign falls within the Modern Era. I'd refer to it as "just after the Middle Ages" if talking about somewhere other than England as the House of Tudor never had any reign over Scotland.
If making reference to a monarch was appropriate I'd refer to "during Mary I's reign" or "during the Queen of Scots time" as it would be innappropriate to state "Marian Era".

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Technically, I think most people would refer to Mary's reign as having occurred during the renaissance, which did, indeed, give birth the the Modern Age.

[Alan H]

To bring up Arlens point, which is kind of important...

Wearing a great kilt to re-enact the middle 1500's ain't quite right. I'm running into this exact same problem. The Guild I am thinking about joining says their setting is such that they've just been released from service from Mary, Queen of Scots court, and now they're travelling across the countryside.

Mary returned from France in 1561, and then in 1567 she abdicated her throne in favor of her son, James. She basically spent most of the rest of her life in one prison or another. Those events place the timing of my potential Guild pretty precisely.

My Guildmistress is encouraging me to wear a great kilt, rather than renaissance breeches and hose to look more "Scottish". She's suggesting that if I wear shoes, people will assume my character is English. This is seriously bugging me, since (as I have learned here on X Marks the Scot, from Mat Newsome) the first recorded reference to something that *might* be a kilt dates from 1578. The first reference which is pretty undoubtably a kilt dates from 1594.

http://albanach.org/kilt.html

Is it POSSIBLE that Highland Scots were wearing kilt-like garments fifteen years before the first potential reference to them? Sure, it's possible...But is it LIKELY? And if they did, they certainly wouldn't have been wearing a modern tartan. Not only that, but how likely is it that some wild middle-class Highlander would have been in the employ of Marys court?

If a group of relatively affluent men and women...and considering the dresses the ladies in the Guild are wearing, these are VERY well-off women... had spent time in Mary's court, it stands to reason that they'd have adopted the dress and manner of her court, which was strongly French-influenced. The upper class at the time in Scotland mostly hailed from the lowlands, anyway, and basically dressed much like their English counterparts...

..and that means, to my understanding, doublet or jerkin, some sort of linen shirt, breeches or trews, SHOES (not hotstuff, sexy Renaissance Fantasy Fair Thigh-High Pirate Boots) and hose. It's possible that the hose could have been knit hose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_knitting

As wool and even silk knitting was well-known at the time, though non-knit (woven) hose would also be possible. Apparently Queen Elizabeth of England quite fancied knit silk hose, though silk would of coruse be far beyond my characters means.

...As for the Fantasy Faire boots...**eyeroll**

I have YET to see a single piece of artwork from the mid 1500's that shows upper-middle-class people who aren't riding horses, wearing boots. If they're riding, then yes, sometimes boots are worn. If they're not, it's *always* shoes. As for these Minnetonka moccasin boots, which my Guildmistress is suggesting...Um... NOT.

Is there some way to work "tartan" into this costume? I'd be interested in folks input on that question.

I'm having a heck of a time stomaching the idea of wearing a wool, tartan Great Kilt with my doublet in garb representing the Scottish Lowlands in 1565.

Comments on all this are welcome, BTW.

I am getting the message here, that in fact, the Guild is just out to have a good time, since a whole lot of it makes no historical sense at all. If that's the case, then I might just as well get some nice wool tartan off of ebay, fold it up into a great kilt and wear a mid-1700's basket-hilt claymore with it, along with my Minnetonka moccasins.

...except that I already bought the breeches and hose, and I already have a totally historically bogus, but very fun poofy RenFaire shirt.

[Alan H]

I wrote a very long expose on footwear and sword, with heavy reference to the Tudor Warship, the Mary Rose. Instead of re-writing, I'll just post a mess of URL's.

http://www.maryrose.org/

http://www.maryrose.org/cloth1.html
http://www.maryrose.org//cloth2.html

Mary Rose shoes.

http://www.nmia.com/~bohemond/Bootsh...riod-boots.htm

picture of an actual shoe from the Mary Rose..

http://www.nmm.ac.uk/server/show/conMediaFile.3516

More on the shoes

http://archaeological-artifacts.suit...and_tudor_life

About the weapons....the Mary Rose Sword

http://www.maryrose.org/ship/hand2.htm

http://www.historicdockyard.co.uk/news/news34.php

That's an early basket hit cut and thrust weapon, not a rapier (point-only).

You can see examples of similar swords here:

http://www.deltin.net/5166.htm
and a more elaborate hand basket, but this one is a "rapier"

http://www.deltin.net/5165.htm
It seems to me like the Mary Rose sword is a precursor to the early 1600's Mortuary Sword, much used in the English Civil war.

[Woodsheal]

The 1594 account clearly mentions belted plaids worn by highland mercenaries in Ireland. The early to mid-1500s accounts frequently mention multi-colored "mantles." These descriptions are clearly describing tartan plaids, but we CAN'T determine if they were yet being worn belted in the "great kilt" manner yet.
I think Alan's on the right track: doublet and breeches are the way to go when portraying a Lowland Scots member (or ex-member) of Mary's court. To look more "Scottish" why not carry a tartan or checked plaid as your "mantle." After all, Lowland and border folk utilized plaids, too, but smaller versions ("shoulder plaid" sized) not worn belted in the Highland manner....

[Alan H]

To look more "Scottish" why not carry a tartan or checked plaid as your "mantle." After all, Lowland and border folk utilized plaids, too, but smaller versions ("shoulder plaid" sized) not worn belted in the Highland manner....

Now, **That** is an inspired idea.

Well, at least in the Winter, around here!

[Pleater]

I have a very indistinct reproduction, in black and white of 'A Horsleydown Wedding' 1568-9, by Joris Hoefnagel, where the male costume is definitely very revealing of the legs - shoes, long stockings, short hose - that is those little puffy shorts with vertical strips, doublets, jackets slung over one shoulder, or long loose sleeveless coats to the ankle, or something capelike, knee length worn over both shoulders.

(edited in later)
I have found it on line under a different title.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...sey_c_1569.jpg


Do you have a precise date for your costuming?

During Mary Queen of Scots' time Scottish dress was considered barbarous and the Scots themselves, savages. Alas my book on costume gives no indication of what the barbarous dress consisted of.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[mudd]

I have a very indistinct reproduction, in black and white of 'A Horsleydown Wedding' 1568-9, by Joris Hoefnagel, where the male costume is definitely very revealing of the legs - shoes, long stockings, short hose - that is those little puffy shorts with vertical strips...

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

This brings to mind; what is it with those puffy shorts?? This is one fashion trend that I never understood. If I was to join a re-enactment group that asked me to wear those, I think I'd pass.

[Morris at Heathfield]

There's no accounting for fashion, I suppose. It's interesting to note that those puffy shorts (breeches) ultimately developed into trousers, while the trousers worn back in the ancient era ultimately developed into socks.

As for the wearing of tartan in the 16th century, there's no doubt it existed. For Highlanders a tartan mantle, worn over a knee-length leine, with bare legs below the knee, would be appropriate. James V, who was not a Highlander, was known to wear tartan hose/trews. (However, I'm not certain exactly when the word "tartan" came to be equivalent to the Gaelic breacan, so I suppose he could have just been wearing linsey-woolsey hose in a single color.) Also, an unknown man whose body was discovered in Ulster wore tartan hose, although he has been dated to the early 17th century rather than the 16th century.

Lastly, as for bonnets, it is my understanding that the 16th-century male Highlander would be bare-headed. At least, I am not aware of any headgear worn by them in this period. I think the 1631 woodcut of the Highland mercenaries serving Gustavus Adolphus is the earliest evidence of Highlanders wearing the bonnet.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

There's no accounting for fashion, I suppose. It's interesting to note that those puffy shorts (breeches) ultimately developed into trousers, while the trousers worn back in the ancient era ultimately developed into socks.

As for the wearing of tartan in the 16th century, there's no doubt it existed. For Highlanders a tartan mantle, worn over a knee-length leine, with bare legs below the knee, would be appropriate. James V, who was not a Highlander, was known to wear tartan hose/trews. (However, I'm not certain exactly when the word "tartan" came to be equivalent to the Gaelic breacan, so I suppose he could have just been wearing linsey-woolsey hose in a single color.) Also, an unknown man whose body was discovered in Ulster wore tartan hose, although he has been dated to the early 17th century rather than the 16th century.

Lastly, as for bonnets, it is my understanding that the 16th-century male Highlander would be bare-headed. At least, I am not aware of any headgear worn by them in this period. I think the 1631 woodcut of the Highland mercenaries serving Gustavus Adolphus is the earliest evidence of Highlanders wearing the bonnet.

Heathfield, your scholarship is first class.