Origin and Use of "Dress" Tartans

[EagleJCS]

As has been alluded to by others, perhaps some of this boils down to a mis-interpretation of the word 'dress' somewhere along the line, wayy back when the mills were just starting to label these patterns?

dress = women's garment (skirt, arisaid, and/or similar/unbifurcated garments)

vs

dress = formal

I would posit that the term was intended to mean 'formal' when applied to tartan for male wearers. Due to the vagaries of the English language, this was misinterpreted at some point, which is how we come to the discussion we are having now.

Or, maybe I'm just barking up the wrong tree, in which case I'll retire from the discussion.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

David,

I think a lot of what we are seeing has to do with the fact that tartan is not an exact science today, and was even less so in the nineteenth century. Categories such as "dress" and "hunting" etc. arose well after many tartans were already in use, and no doubt many of them were shoved into categories after the fact because of certain characteristics.

For example, the Menzies "dress" tartan you mention was certified by the chief of the clan in 1816 in the Highland Society of London collection as the clan tartan. Period. No "dress." I suspect it was labelled as "dress" erroneously at some point later on simply because it contained a lot of white. The "hunting" version of this tartan, which is red and green (or red and black) dates to 1893. I suspect that it was likely after alternate tartans were introduced for the clan (such as the hunting) that the white version came to be called "dress."

As for the dress tartans that are obviously variations of recognized clan tartans with more white added, I did a cursory search of the ITI for tartans with "dress" in the name, and the earliest of these I found seemed to come from the 1880s (Clans Originaux), which means they were in production at that time. Then there seems to be another influx of dress designs dating from 1930-50 (The MacGregor-Hastie collection), and many more introduced in the 60s and 80s. I suspect as time went on, there was a "Hey, why don't we have a dress tartan?" syndrome going on. :-)

It is interesting, also, to note that a lot of tartan designs may date to an earlier period, but the name "dress" being associated with them would seem more recent. For example, the Wallace dress tartan is documented as an unnamed sett in the Highland Society Collection (1816), but in the MacGregor-Hastie collection (from between 1930 and 1950, as I have said) it is labelled "Wallace Dress."

[Dixiecat]

In doing some internet research I found a little information regarding dress tartans. The information in the link below does mention the relationship to arisaid tartans, but also goes onto say that they are suitable for formal dress occasions.
http://www.britishcouncil.org/china-...esoftartan.htm

Other than the obvious creation of dress clan 'fashion' tartans for dancers in the last few years, the only reference I found for a specific dress tartan specifically introduced for highland dancers is Dress Saskatchewan.
http://www.ops.gov.sk.ca/Default.asp...0-c10ebc10bc0d

I also found a pipe band that wears a dress tartan.
www.standrewspipebandvt.org

I also found a few clans that recognise the dress variant of their tartan.
Ruxton: www.dhs.kyutech.ac.jp/~ruxton/ruxtartans.html
Innes: www.boydhouse.com
Fraser: www.fraserchief.co.uk/tartans.html

[Zardoz]

My wife's clan has a mostly blue 'dress tartan' which is actually the most frequently seen of their tartans;

http://www.clanthompson.org/tartans.html

[JSFMACLJR]

I also found a few clans that recognise the dress variant of their tartan.
Fraser: www.fraserchief.co.uk/tartans.html

Lady Saltoun's comments are very interesting:

"I myself would only wear the ones I have illustrated in my website, and on public occasions only the common ones. I do wear Fraser Gathering tartan (after I had a considerable hand in designing it!), but generally only in private, because I wear my tartan to be instantly recognisable. I personally intensely dislike most white or yellow ground tartans and would not be seen dead in them! But that does not mean that others should not wear them if they wish to do so.

Incidentally, when I was young, dress tartans were red ground as a rule and Hunting tartans were green or brown ground ( for camouflage out on the hill). Now they call white ground tartans "Dress" and red just red. I objected to this when designing the Fraser Gathering tartan, but was informed that I was quite wrong, so meekly gave in, but I still believe that I am right and they are wrong!
So if you want to wear one of the less well known ones, go ahead, but be aware of the pitfalls!"

[wildrover]

(The following is written somewhat seriously, and mostly with tongue lodged firmly in cheek! )

David may have been technically incorrect, but the perception that tartans in/on/with white were intended for women and Highland dancers (most of whom are female) is one that I will admit I shared until reading through this thread, and I will also admit that seeing white-based tartans marketed on several Scottish-themed web stores as "women's" adds to that perception, as do the colors in the dance tartans I've seen.

<rant>

Frankly, selling me on a white tartan will be difficult considering the majority I've seen appear to be marketed toward women and little girls. I'm not wearing that stuff..."salmon" is a food, not a color, I think "periwinkle" might be a flower, "lavender" is a candle flavor that makes me sneeze, and I'm not even sure what "mauve" and "taupe" are, even though I can spell them ...but I'm pretty certain they're pastel, and I'm not girding my loins in white with pastels on it, no way. I don't care how much pink Hulk Hogan wants to wear, he's not wearing it on a white background on something that most of the world calls a "skirt" and associates with women, even in a modern society that's become so metro that regular guys are starting to worry if they get muffin top in a pair of 300$ fitted-cut designer jeans. A recent fit test determined my "Scottish skirt" to be far more masculine (not that it's difficult, it's a kilt! No contest, kilt for the win! ), and two pairs of those damn overpriced metro jeans equals one tank. If there's a white-based tartan that's more "Carharrt" than "True Religion", I want to see it, here on this thread, in a forum that is--and I quote:

not a forum for men looking to wear womens clothing

</rant>

So by all means, let's see some white-based tartans that weren't designed for 6 year old girls to dance the Highland Fling, or for hostess dresses, bridal gowns, or miniskirts.

...Or for "Captain Shakespeare", for that matter.

MacLaren has a dress tartan (1980s):


But it's hard to tell if it would suit me.

...Not to mention, the Clan MacLaren Society website states "The Dress tartan is mainly preferred by ladies for evening wear." Thanks, guys...I assume the exception to "mainly" is highland dancers, right? Where the group is 99.9% little girls, and that one guy that everybody probably calls "Token"? Never mind that the designer is a man, and owns a kilt of it.

Wish I could see a picture, the photo colors online don't do the modern tartan justice, so I assume the dress tartan isn't being properly represented either. I can sort of picture it as a kilt, and I suspect it would look really sharp.

Anybody got a photo of it "in use"?

*pre-post edit* I was composing this in the background of work, before the prior two posts. I like that idea of a red "dress" tartan. I wonder if the Clan MacLaren society would go for the idea...that'd be awesome!

-Sean

[fluter]

I also found a few clans that recognise the dress variant of their tartan.
Ruxton: www.dhs.kyutech.ac.jp/~ruxton/ruxtartans.html
Innes: www.boydhouse.com
Fraser: www.fraserchief.co.uk/tartans.html

MacGregor dress green is recognized by the chief, only for dance competitors. Elsewhere he writes, "We have never gone in for dress, undress, dress down, fancy dress, hunting or any other such descriptions..."

See Matt's blog & various references
From Clan Gregor, part 1
Part 2

[MacLowlife]

Gee, I was hoping to get some of that MacSomething yardage, preferably in a 12 or 14 oz weight.

[Zardoz]

Here is a fellow wearing the "Dress Stewart" tartan, like Prince Charles is in the photo posted earlier. I think this might be the only time I've noticed anyone wearing a white based dress tartan kilt at an event. And while I think I would have matched my hose to the jacket, I figure the outfit works pretty well.

[ronstew]

The word Stewart catches my eye. Beverly asked David (I presume rhetorically) if he knew that the Dress Stewart is an official clan tartan. Beverly, what is your source for this? My name is Stewart, but my line is many generations removed from Scotland. Online research leads me to believe that the chief of the Stewart/Stuart/Steuarts is Her Majesty the Queen. Nowhere have I read that she, or any of her predecessors, has made any proclamation about which tartans are or are not official. I would be thrilled if you could find me a reliable source to tell me where I could find the official Stewart tartans.