A Message From The Queen.

[Lallans]

In fairness to the ladies of Britain in WW2, I have to step in here. Many women served in our armed forces and whilst they did not generally serve in the front line as they do today, the Luftwaffe and the Kriegsmarine, for example, had no front line as such. However, many women of Britain serving their country around the World in a multitude of ways, including civilians, lost their lives.

Certainly all true, and according to accounts I've been given, in WWII the Soviet's top army sniper and air combat flyer, plus many other combat aviators, were women as well. Historically women were recruited when a country was backed against the wall and then told they had to step down when the danger had passed. But they did not serve in combat on the Allied side in WWII, that was my point.

[Jock Scot]

Certainly all true, and according to accounts I've been given, in WWII the Soviet's top army sniper and air combat flyer, plus many other combat aviators, were women as well. Historically women were recruited when a country was backed against the wall and then told they had to step down when the danger had passed. But they did not serve in combat on the Allied side in WWII, that was my point.

I don't wish to be pedantic here, but try telling that to the WAAFS at he Ventnor radar station, or the RAF stations in the South of England as the German bombs were raining down on them, or to the WAACS(later WRACS) as they "manned" the Anti Aircraft guns between 1939 and 1945. WW2 was probably the only war in history where the civilians and the women of the services of Great Britain were in the "front line" and with the greatest of respect, I think you are being rather grudging with your definition of "combat".

I seem to recall that Her Majesty was commissioned in 1945.

[macwilkin]

I don't wish to be pedantic here, but try telling that to the WAAFS at he Ventnor radar station, or the RAF stations in the South of England as the German bombs were raining down on them, or to the WAACS(later WRACS) as the "manned" the Anti Aircraft guns between 1939 and 1945. WW2 was probably the only war in history where the civilians and the women of the services of Great Britain were in the "front line" and with the greatest of respect, I think you are being rather grudging with your definition of "combat".

I seem to recall that Her Majesty was commissioned in 1945.

Not to mention the nurses who served at field hospitals, Jock. A number of American nurses were captured by the Japanese in the Philippines in 1942, and suffered along with their male comrades in the POW camps.

T.

[Jock Scot]

Not to mention the nurses who served at field hospitals, Jock. A number of American nurses were captured by the Japanese in the Philippines in 1942, and suffered along with their male comrades in the POW camps.

T.

.....or Singapore, or Malta, or Tobruk, or........the list is a long and proud one.



Lest we forget.

[Jock Scot]

An example, A Lieutenant RN is equal to, but senior, to an Army Captain who is equal, but senior, to a Flight Lieutenant of the RAF assuming no one is actually in command of a situation which could be the fellow in the RAF flying the aeroplane.It would not matter one bit if an Admiral was a passenger, the pilot of whatever rank is in command of the aircraft. A Commander RN(three thick stripes on the sleeve) is equal, but senior, to an Army Lt. Colonel. At least it was that way in my day too many years ago. The Royal Navy is the Senior Service and the Royal Air Force for no other reason than it is the youngest, is the Junior service.

Interestingly a Major(for example) of Royal Marines when ashore in an action situation usually by tradition(not by right) rises by one rank. This situation sadly did not take place at Bluff Cove in the Falklands where the Royal Marine Major advised(correctly) getting the troops off the troop transport before the stores, the CO(senior to the RM Major) of the Welsh Guards thought otherwise and sadly, with the benefit of hindsight, he was proved disastrously wrong.

[Pleater]

That scene in 'Zulu' just came to mind - where the two officers sort out who is the senior, and therefor in command, by the date their commission was Gazetted.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[Jock Scot]

That scene in 'Zulu' just came to mind - where the two officers sort out who is the senior, and therefor in command, by the date their commission was Gazetted.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

Quite right as they were both in the army, that could happen to two RN, or RAF Officers of the same rank. Although it would be advisable for the Officers in question to consider carefully each other's particular skills for the particular situation.

[Mike_Oettle]

Jock Scot wrote: “. . . it would be advisable for the Officers in question to consider carefully each other's particular skills for the particular situation.”

While that would be the wisest course, it is not always followed.

In South Africa, the seniority of the services is reversed, since the army is the oldest service, next the air force, and lastly the navy.
Despite that position, the South African Air Force is the world’s second oldest, with only the RAF being older.
However, unlike the RAF, it was formed solely out of the army, hence the use (still) of army ranks and (until the 1950s) of khaki uniforms.
So unlike the air forces of the other Commonwealth nations (mostly modelled on the RAF but all younger than the SAAF) it does not have squadron leaders, wing commanders and air marshals.
Zimbabwe, ironically, still has such officers, although I would not have much respect for a Zimbabwean air marshal (unless I was under arrest by his Air Police!).
Regards,
Mike

[macwilkin]

Zimbabwe, ironically, still has such officers, although I would not have much respect for a Zimbabwean air marshal (unless I was under arrest by his Air Police!).

Yes, they've fallen far from the days of "Green Leader"...



T.

[JerseyLawyer]

Quite right as they were both in the army, that could happen to two RN, or RAF Officers of the same rank. Although it would be advisable for the Officers in question to consider carefully each other's particular skills for the particular situation.

And, of course, Zulu raised the interesting issue that an Officer of Engineers is considered to be a line officer, not a staff officer. Although I suppose since the Zulu Wars took place after the Cardwell reforms, the until-then-recent distinction between Engineers being promoted by seniority and Regimental Officers purchasing their commissions would no longer have appertained.

Sorry... I'll let you get back to the rest of the discussion now.

But since we're talking about Zulu... ith: