Celtic History??

[Creeker]

I agree, history takes a back seat to math, science and language arts. It's a shame because I have talked to high school kids who don't know what the Bill of Rights is, they don't know the difference between the Revolutionary War and the Civil War. There's barely enough time for American history in public schools, let alone, the histories of other countries or groups, again, it's a shame.
But like tripleblessed said, 'Education is a gift you give yourself...' It's nice to know there are books, resources, even places like this to ask questions.
Good luck to you

[Lallans]

Woodsman,

We actually have an entire section of the forum for members to list their favorite books.
It is called "The Library" and can be found by following this link.

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f264/

Well you asked for it Mr A, I just posted a 10 minute review of Born Fighting on that section. I will edit and perhaps even improve it when I get a chance...

[Curly]

Since I live in the U.S. I can only speak for my own education and experience.
That said, here is what my old dad [ an American Civil War student] told me about history vis -a -vie it's transmission in schools. It was his theory [to which I obviously subscribe] that the pablum doled out by schools is only a taste of greater depths to be explored. In my own case and many others, is that we find a period age or whatever that grabs our interest and we are bound to pursue it on our own. His main thust was that education in anything is dependant on indivual curiosity and inititive. A good teacher, the best school will only serve to open that door.
Best, Curly

[Bugbear]

All right, I have the feeling I should stay out of this, but a couple of things are bothering me a little...

First, how are you going to know if the sources you are using to learn on your own are credible sources?
I ask Cajunscot because he is a historian and he can help sort through the land mines, but that is not learning on my own; in fact, reading a history book is still removed or secondhand from the actual research that went into the book, so the author of the book is teaching me.

I haven't quite figured out how to make my second point, but I would think History is an interdisciplinary field that requires some knowledge from many other fields including math and sciences. I majored in English, and it required some knowledge of history if for no other reason than for the context of the literature being studied; I recall most science and math courses having some history included in the study, as well. Yes, I realize this was not in depth study of history... I would think the university setting is a good place for the fields to interact and keep an eye on each other.

[Woot22]

All right, I have the feeling I should stay out of this, but a couple of things are bothering me a little...

First, how are you going to know if the sources you are using to learn on your own are credible sources?
I ask Cajunscot because he is a historian and he can help sort through the land mines, but that is not learning on my own; in fact, reading a history book is still removed or secondhand from the actual research that went into the book, so the author of the book is teaching me.

I haven't quite figured out how to make my second point, but I would think History is an interdisciplinary field that requires some knowledge from many other fields including math and sciences. I majored in English, and it required some knowledge of history if for no other reason than for the context of the literature being studied; I recall most science and math courses having some history included in the study, as well. Yes, I realize this was not in depth study of history... I would think the university setting is a good place for the fields to interact and keep an eye on each other.

For the novices like myself the best you can do is look at Primary Sources and if you want to read something like Born Fighting by Senator Webb then make sure he is citing lots of Primary Sources. That way you can at least get a feel if he is backing up his thesis with facts.

Just FYI a primary source would be things like letters and government documents from the time period in discussion. Any first hand account basically is what you want to look for.

Hope that helps at least a little.

[Pyper]

I really enjoyed Mr. Webb's book, but it's not a scholarly work (I think it even say that in the preface). It's more of an extended essay. He uses a lot of sources, but they're almost always secondary, and sometimes even further removed.

I think the point of his book is to point out some of the history and heritage of the people of the Appalachians, which has been largely forgotten (not by historians, but by the people living there today).

Back to the original subject, I know a young fellow who recently completed a degree in archaeology with an emphasis in Celtic Iron Age. I kept asking his dad what you do with a degree like that. Turns out you go to graduate school. In England

[Woodsman]

Woodsman,

We actually have an entire section of the forum for members to list their favorite books.
It is called "The Library" and can be found by following this link.

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f264/

Thanks Steve. I will check it out.

[macwilkin]

I really enjoyed Mr. Webb's book, but it's not a scholarly work (I think it even say that in the preface). It's more of an extended essay. He uses a lot of sources, but they're almost always secondary, and sometimes even further removed.

I think the point of his book is to point out some of the history and heritage of the people of the Appalachians, which has been largely forgotten (not by historians, but by the people living there today).

Back to the original subject, I know a young fellow who recently completed a degree in archaeology with an emphasis in Celtic Iron Age. I kept asking his dad what you do with a degree like that. Turns out you go to graduate school. In England

Seconded on Webb; Leyburn's monograph is a far more "scholarly" source.

T.

[Burly Brute]

As to the original OP's post about the lack of teaching of Celtic history, the same could be said of just about any culture in the world, going back thousands of years. It is just that there are not many Babylonians around today (or at least who would call themselves that) to complain about the lack of Babylonian history being taught to the general public. We are each taught curricula chosen by our designated educators that is thought to be relevant to who and where we each are physicall, politically, religiously, etc... And although we all know the old adage that he who fails to study the mistakes of the past is doomed to repeat them (think of Hitler repeating Napoleon's invasion of Russia---both ultimately doomed to failure for the very same reasons), most of what we are taught is only that which is relevant to what is "useful" in today's society---mathematics, physics, chemistry, engineering, etc.. while the more historical subjects like literature and history and political science are typically relegated to minor requirements or elective status. Again this is speaking in generalities but from my experience as a long-standing student, educator, child of an educator, and parent of two now college aged children.

Youth is wasted on the young, and it is they who should be interested in and taught the lessons of all manner of history, but alas in today's hustle bustle high tech world it is lost in the fog of all that is required for survival in the immediate moment, and relegated to hobby or interest status, unless there is some specific reason to study some part of history. That is why so many of us do not start becoming interested in history until much later in our lives---we have stabilized the "requirements of survival today" with a regular job and settled life, and have time to become interested in other things, while simultaneously recognizing that the older we get the closer our own mortality becomes a reality. Remembering our own lives, hearing stories of the lives of others told to us by friends and family and faculty then become so much more important to us, memories to hold onto, and why most foks getting into geneology are over 40 years old.

History is important, but far too many of us spend too much of our time worried about living in the present or planning for the future to ever turn around and look backward into the lessons and beauty that is the past.

j

Very valid points, however, let me try to assert a few pointless bits of dribble to further confuse everyone else! Haha1 I totally agree, if I were of specific Babylonian decent, writing on xmarksthebab.com, I would probably be raising the same issue—if it were an issue. So I don’t know if that is the best argument. And who decides what we are taught? Whether it is best? I think that was my main point in asking why those who designate what we learn skip over such a deep part of human history. And to be honest, mathematics, physics, all that combined is useless without a good foundation of history because history, in part, is what drives a man’s spirit to be creative and inventive.
The hard part in all of my arguments is my huge Christian bias. Mostly because I always come back to the root of man’s nature with a preconceived bias, and it is through that lens that I weigh, as a whole, all of mankind’s decisions. Your second paragraph really hits home, I think our lack of historical studies, our “just to graduate” attitudes is leaving people void, hallowed out shells that ruminate on nothing and give nothing back (keep in mind this is a generality and doesn’t apply to everyone…also I am speaking from an American POV). I think everyone in here raised great points, especially you Forrester about how muddled up all of the system has become. I guess, despite my foolish attempt, there is no real definitive answer on why these subjects aren’t more common in the public school system. I am thankful for this website and those majors mentioned previously which can be taken at the college level. I think the Celts, or more specifically the Gaels and Picts have such a rudimentary history which would help young men be men and grow a class in society which would be more honorable and determined to live by integrity. I think Americans are lax in history and in their lives simply because we have lost touch with our roots and reality, becoming these nihilistic peons who rely way too much on technology to cure all of our ills.

Side Note: This reply may have been border-line to break a rule, if so please delete. I think you all can tell that I wasn’t attacking any specific group, except maybe my whole society as a whole (trying to restrain within generalities), but I may have gotten carried away. Either way, no worries!

[Bugbear]

... And to be honest, mathematics, physics, all that combined is useless without a good foundation of history because history, in part, is what drives a man’s spirit to be creative and inventive. ...

I disagree. I do not think history can be accurate without some foundation of mathematics, science, and some basic understanding of psychology. History does, after all, usually involve human behavior... To me, it is all interrelated, and the history of a subject is very important, as well, if for no other reason than it relates back the struggle to achieve the knowledge of that subject; it relates human meaning to the information. Most subjects or fields have a interrelated importance.

My opinion is that being creative and innovative along with self reflection is what drives or creates a person's spirit, but I probably define spirit differently than most.

It's a "full orb manhood" thing.

Just thought I would, against my better judgement, express what came to mind one more time.