tie with a prince charlie?

[Tobus]

Why would anyone want to wear a necktie with a coatee? Why? What point are you trying to get across? What is it about the normal dress conventions that upset you enough that you want to chuck them and wear something that just is inappropriate?

Gosh, that sounds familiar. Sounds a lot like "Why would anyone want to wear a kilt if they're not Scottish? Why? What point are you trying to get across? What is it about the normal dress conventions that upset you enough that you want to chuck them and wear something that just is inappropriate?"

I am sure I'll get called all sorts of things for this post, for my bluntness and mean-spiritedness...but I really do want to know about this. One wears a bow tie to black tie events in the evening. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

The OP clearly stated that this was not official black tie.

[artificer]

I am sure I'll get called all sorts of things for this post, for my bluntness and mean-spiritedness...but I really do want to know about this. One wears a bow tie to black tie events in the evening. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Sir, you are mean-spirited, overly blunt, and dead on

I really fail to see the point in a straight/ruche tie w/a coatee/doublet as well.

ith:


edit: Tobus has a point that this ISN'T a true black tie affair, but the straight tie/doublet always smacks of converse & tux to me.

[JSFMACLJR]

Gosh, that sounds familiar. Sounds a lot like "Why would anyone want to wear a kilt if they're not Scottish? Why? What point are you trying to get across? What is it about the normal dress conventions that upset you enough that you want to chuck them and wear something that just is inappropriate?"


The OP clearly stated that this was not official black tie.

The point I'm trying to get across, Tobus, is that one wears bow ties with evening dress. That is what a PC coatee is. Always has been; always will be...at least by the cognizanti.

"Official black tie"?? What on earth does that mean? What is "unofficial black tie"? A costume party, perhaps? The OP wrote: "Formal smart but not black tie is the spec". So, why would one wear a PC coatee to this event in the first place, if we can assume "formal smart etc" does not mean black tie as is universally known? The coatee is EVENING DRESS. Period. Don't have an argyll style jacket? Then might I suggest you forgo wearing a kilt, or wear it with a waistcoat or a sweater. I'd rather see a man wearing the kilt wear it properly and be a bit underdressed than seeing him get it all wrong.

Back to the OP: he asked, "Question one... is a tie with a prince Charlie ok?" To which I respond, simply, no. QED. Sorry if people don't like my response, but the question was asked, and I am not known to sugar-coat my opinions.


It really irks me sometimes how people who have not grown up wearing Highland dress like to reinvent the wheel, especially when it comes to matters of well-established custom and tradition. If one wants to look like a movie-star, or the uninformed neophyte, then by all means go ahead. If I saw you dressed that way I am far too polite to say anything to you, but I sure would get a chuckle out of it.

[JSFMACLJR]

edit: Tobus has a point that this ISN'T a true black tie affair, but the straight tie/doublet always smacks of converse & tux to me.

And to Tobus's credit, he did remind me of the OP's intentions re: "Formal smart but not black tie is the spec." I was forced to reread the OP.

So the real question should be whether it is okay to wear a PC coatee with a necktie, rather than if it is fine to wear a necktie with a PC. Quite a difference.

[Tim P]

Well that's me told

[Tobus]

"Official black tie"?? What on earth does that mean? What is "unofficial black tie"? A costume party, perhaps? The OP wrote: "Formal smart but not black tie is the spec".

*shrug* The host is the one who determines the level of dress, and in this case he clearly stated that he did not want black tie.

The PC may be traditionally a black-tie-only jacket, which is why my first question to the OP was whether he was asking if it was "OK" from a sense of tradition or just aesthetics.

Please keep in mind that this was not posted in the traditional forum, so there's no need to preach at people about how tradition is the only way...

[JSFMACLJR]

Well that's me told

You asked a couple of good questions; I gave a well-thought-out answer. Don't pay any attention to me, I'm just a curmudgeonly 50 year old!

Have a good time at the party whatever you wear, and if we meet up, the first round is on me.

[JSFMACLJR]

*shrug* The host is the one who determines the level of dress, and in this case he clearly stated that he did not want black tie.

The PC may be traditionally a black-tie-only jacket, which is why my first question to the OP was whether he was asking if it was "OK" from a sense of tradition or just aesthetics.

Please keep in mind that this was not posted in the traditional forum, so there's no need to preach at people about how tradition is the only way...

No need to patronise me, Tobus. My opinions are just as welcome-- or perhaps valid-- outside of the traditional forum.

[McMurdo]

Sandy, well said, while there are no rules there are conventions. Those that want to look correct follow the conventions, highland wear is no different than anything else. I am always aghast when I see photos of what the celebs have worn to the Oscars or some other awards show as they invariably get it wrong, wearing a tuxedo with a 4 in hand tie etc. One thing that always irks me is the mixing of formality, if you are wearing Black Tie than wear it properly, you will look better you will not have to worry about how you look and you will be showing your hosts the respect they deserve.

I still do not understand the difference between Black Tie and Formal Smart any enlightenment would be appreciated.

[Tim P]

Hopefully it will be apparent that I had strong doubts from the offset. I am not one to mix it up.
My mates wife sent out the invites and was keen to emphasise posh frocks for the girls and smart for the lads. I texted the host and asked if posh meant black tie and he said no, just smart. As to how I can interpret that, It left me reluctant to go absolutely classic white shirt black bow tie but as I have a dark grey dress shirt and a dark grey black kilt I was thinking that just took the absolute formality off the ensemble but had the potential to look as cool as anything if thoughtfully done.. A black bow tie does not work with that ensemble in my opinion.

I can choose from an RAF tartan Kilt, a dark blue ben wyvis or a mil spec cameron.

or a black jacobite......

Or a suit.

keep the opinions coming, they are all welcome.