Wearing Your Medals With Your Kilt

[wsk]

I understand where you're coming from, James. Like you, I didn't serve for the thanks of the folks at home. In fact, I'm always very slightly uncomfortable when someone thanks me for my service, because I feel that I, as a veteran of Gulf Wars Episode 1, did much less than my fathers, who were in Viet Nam, or my grandfathers, who were in WWII.

At the same time, I think that civilians won't understand unless they ask, and we tell them. And one way to tell them that we're open to being asked, that we'll tell them, is to wear our decorations at the appropriate times.

And it doesn't hurt to remember our friends who didn't come home. So the more I think about it, the more I think I will get a ribbon bar to wear on my scrubs on memorial day and veteran's day.

Yeah. What he said.

I did six years in the Navy punching holes in the ocean. I got a good conduct ribbon - this despite certain in-your-face comments to the captain that kept me from getting to E5 when I should have. I got a marksmanship ribbon with the E device because it was so cold that day that I couldn't twitch the trigger. I got a Battle E ribbon because the ship was efficient (twice). And I got a Navy Sea Service Ribbon for punching the aforementioned holes.

Woo who.

But I also got my Dolphins and Detergent Patrol Pin. These I wear on Veterans Day because these mean something to me. The earning of them made me one of that special group of men who go down in the sea in submarines.

I think it's important for all who have done military service to, on these celebratory days, wear something that shows that we did do good service. Not so much for civilians, they don't understand, but for each other. Who knows, you might find a new friend.

But am I Veteran. Nah. I joined the Navy for absolutely selfish reasons. There was no sacrifice on my part. Besides: "We can't all be heroes because somebody has to sit on the curb and clap as they go by." -- Will Rogers (for whom, by the way, my submarine was named)

[kiltimabar]

I've heard some vets sneer at the National Defense Service Medal (given to everyone who serves during a period of national emergency, even if you don't see any combat or even overseas service at all). I never do, even though I did serve in combat.

The NDSM shows that one either 1) volunteered to serve or 2) responded willingly when the nation called. By doing so he (or she) took on all the risks that might come his way, served where he was sent to go, and did what he was sent to do, whether it was combat or not. Same for the Good Conduct Medal, even if the time wasn't in an emergency.

All gave some, some gave all.

So I would encourage all who may only have one medal, to wear it proudly. I'll shake your hand, brother.

[Mr. MacDougall]

I had a kid come into the clinic where I work today. He was wearing a US Army t-shirt, had on a POW/MIA wrist band, and was wearing a pair of combat boots. After I took his vitals, I said, "So, I hear you saying you're considering the Army as a career."

He got vary wary, and cautiously said, "Yeah?"

I grinned, and asked, "Can I talk you into considering the Navy?"

He laughed, and said that his dad, a career Army helo pilot, would kill him. But that moment of wariness, of being prepared for the worst, concerned me. It made me wonder what other people had said to him. Maybe we who are veterans need to be more visible, so that our military doesn't become a job of last resort. 'cause, you know... if we leave our national defense to those who have no other options, we'll get the military we deserve.

[Chef]

Maybe we who are veterans need to be more visible, so that our military doesn't become a job of last resort. 'cause, you know... if we leave our national defense to those who have no other options, we'll get the military we deserve.

I agree with you to the extent we as veterans should be more visible so that the public can see who has served, and understand that many of those they respect and hold dear have served this country.

I would however caution you on your comment about those who join because they have no other options. I understand what you are saying and in some cases I believe you are correct. However all of us who served, served with some for whom the military was the last resort (for different reasons). However, I personally know many who served and changed their life because of the military. I would also remind you that there are many, for whom the military was the last resort, who gave their lives in service to this country.

[James MacMillan]

This thread has taken an interesting turn.

The current question seems to be heading towards: Would you encourage a young man to join the Armed Forces?

Wow - is that a hard question. I feel every young person would benifit from two, three or more years in the service to his country. It teaches many things: self-reliance, dependablilty, accountability, independence and dependence at the same time. It forces a person to be true to his word. It exposes him to work with others he may not like. It shows him that sweat and hard work will not kill him, but that inattention may. It makes him realize that his well being is dependent on the actions of others and himself. It teaches him to be at work on time. These are all attributes that every adult should have, and sadly few do.

Would I encourage every young person to join? No. The service is not for everyone! If a young person is not ready to take the responsibility for his own actions, the service will only make his life worse.

Would I encourage a young person to join, who seems to have a yearning to learn and a strong curiosity? Yes.

I won't go into which branch of the service I would recommend, because my answers would be different for each person. Not every young man can be a Marine. But the same is true for the Army, Navy or Coast Guard. The jury is still out on the Air Force.

Other political questions also need to be asked. Should the US bring back the draft? Yes! Should there be any draft deferments? NO! \

What say you?

[BLAZN]

Yeah. What he said.

I did six years in the Navy punching holes in the ocean. I got a good conduct ribbon - this despite certain in-your-face comments to the captain that kept me from getting to E5 when I should have. I got a marksmanship ribbon with the E device because it was so cold that day that I couldn't twitch the trigger. I got a Battle E ribbon because the ship was efficient (twice). And I got a Navy Sea Service Ribbon for punching the aforementioned holes.

Woo who.

But I also got my Dolphins and Detergent Patrol Pin. These I wear on Veterans Day because these mean something to me. The earning of them made me one of that special group of men who go down in the sea in submarines.

I think it's important for all who have done military service to, on these celebratory days, wear something that shows that we did do good service. Not so much for civilians, they don't understand, but for each other. Who knows, you might find a new friend.

But am I Veteran. Nah. I joined the Navy for absolutely selfish reasons. There was no sacrifice on my part. Besides: "We can't all be heroes because somebody has to sit on the curb and clap as they go by." -- Will Rogers (for whom, by the way, my submarine was named)

Ah... a fellow submariner. Check the signature line. No pocket rocket here though... fast attack tough all the way. Probably won't ever get the chance to go 3 knots to no where.
I sport my fish as a kilt pin on occasion, and wear them on my cavalier hat at Ren faires.

I've heard some vets sneer at the National Defense Service Medal (given to everyone who serves during a period of national emergency, even if you don't see any combat or even overseas service at all). I never do, even though I did serve in combat.

The NDSM shows that one either 1) volunteered to serve or 2) responded willingly when the nation called. By doing so he (or she) took on all the risks that might come his way, served where he was sent to go, and did what he was sent to do, whether it was combat or not. Same for the Good Conduct Medal, even if the time wasn't in an emergency.

All gave some, some gave all.

So I would encourage all who may only have one medal, to wear it proudly. I'll shake your hand, brother.

Not only do I have the MDSM, I have a bronze star on the puppy. That signifies that I have earned it not once, but twice. I'm but a month short of hitting my 14 year mark. I volunteered and I am still making the sacrifices that come with the job.
Additionally, I have earned in my time in the Navy the following awards:
Advanced to E6 in a little over 6 years (put it on in June '00).
I've earned 1 Battle Efficiency, 2 Navy and Marine Corps Achievement medals, Good Conduct medal with 3 bronze stars (signifies 4 awards), Global War on Terrorism Service Medal, a Sea Service ribbon with 2 bronze stars (3 awards total), the Arctic Service ribbon (I really want to add the Antarctic Service Ribbon), and two Navy Exhibitionary Medals.
I hardly ever wear any of them, as my job never has me in a uniform that calls for them. I never wear them in civilian clothes, as I find it a bit gaudy. And in my entire career, I've managed to dodge ever having to don Full Dress Blues.
My hope is to eventually get the USN tartan Hillwalker kilt from Alexis Malcolm, and get permission to hit up a Submarine Birthday Ball in my Dinner Dress White jacket with the kilt. THAT would be a sweet ensemble.

[macwilkin]

Getting back on topic -- Alex's thread about Remembrance Sunday in Hawick has a lot of good photos of ex-servicemen wearing their goings with mufti:

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/r...148/index.html

I don't see how any one could accuse these gentlemen of being "gaudy".

Lest we forget,

Todd

[wsk]

This thread has taken an interesting turn.

The current question seems to be heading towards: Would you encourage a young man to join the Armed Forces?

Wow - is that a hard question. I feel every young person would benifit from two, three or more years in the service to his country. It teaches many things: self-reliance, dependablilty, accountability, independence and dependence at the same time. It forces a person to be true to his word. It exposes him to work with others he may not like. It shows him that sweat and hard work will not kill him, but that inattention may. It makes him realize that his well being is dependent on the actions of others and himself. It teaches him to be at work on time. These are all attributes that every adult should have, and sadly few do.

Would I encourage every young person to join? No. The service is not for everyone! If a young person is not ready to take the responsibility for his own actions, the service will only make his life worse.

We disagree. Heartily. For all of the excellent reasons you've enumerated, I benefited from my term in the Navy despite the fact that I was in no way ready to take responsibility for my life. If you could read my evals from the first half of my Naval service you'd see that my performance was uniformly less than stellar. But then I got myself squared away and life has been much better ever since. I assert that without the Navy to kick my butt, give me meaningful responsibility, and a sense of belonging, I'd have not done as well in this life as I have done.

Would I encourage a young person to join, who seems to have a yearning to learn and a strong curiosity? Yes.

I won't go into which branch of the service I would recommend, because my answers would be different for each person. Not every young man can be a Marine. But the same is true for the Army, Navy or Coast Guard. The jury is still out on the Air Force.

Other political questions also need to be asked. Should the US bring back the draft? Yes! Should there be any draft deferments? NO! \

What say you?

Political questions are, well, political and you know how the mods feel about political discussions.

[James MacMillan]

We disagree. Heartily. For all of the excellent reasons you've enumerated, I benefited from my term in the Navy despite the fact that I was in no way ready to take responsibility for my life. If you could read my evals from the first half of my Naval service you'd see that my performance was uniformly less than stellar. But then I got myself squared away and life has been much better ever since. I assert that without the Navy to kick my butt, give me meaningful responsibility, and a sense of belonging, I'd have not done as well in this life as I have done.

I'm not sure we really disagree at all. Having had a lot of first termers working for me over the years, some were just unable to make the adjustment. They were just miserable. Sure some, like you, eventually got with the program, and made a life. Others got out as soon as possible, harbored bad feelings and still didn't do very well. To this day, I continue to meet individuals who say that they should have stayed in. But I'm sure you will agree that the service is not for everyone. That's a good thing.

Political questions are, well, political and you know how the mods feel about political discussions.

Yea, you are right. Nuff said.

[wsk]

Ah... a fellow submariner. Check the signature line. No pocket rocket here though... fast attack tough all the way. Probably won't ever get the chance to go 3 knots to no where.
I sport my fish as a kilt pin on occasion, and wear them on my cavalier hat at Ren faires.

There are several of us bubbleheads here though you are the only one who seems to want to divide us into the separate camps as if one were inherently better than the other.

I had a jeweler copy my Dolphins and Detergent Patrol Pin in sterling to serve as kilt pins on a kilt made from the Polaris tartan. Someday when I have the dollars....

... two Navy Exhibitionary Medals.

Really? And what were you exhibiting?

Perhaps you ought not answer that in polite company.