Origin and Use of "Dress" Tartans

[ronstew]

My uncle in Dress Stewart:

[Dixiecat]

what is your source for this

I've been caught out! I'm in the same boat as you ronstew as I could not find any documentation after I made that statement to David. I '***'umed that since we have a link to a picture of a personage of no less than HRH Prince Charles wearing Dress Stewart, that his family must recognise it as official!

the majority I've seen appear to be marketed toward women and little girls

This is the same slant tone in the OPs first post that I objected to and which has lead to this lengthy discussion. It shouldn't be presumed that because there's a plethora of white background clan-based 'fashion' tartans obviously created for the feminine market, that ALL white background tartans are of this category. And again, since highland dancers prefer white background tartans as an aid for best viewing of a swinging kilt against dark background stages, it doesn't follow that ALL these tartans are of the 'fashion' tartan category. The original post discounted all white background tartans as unsuitable for men. I'm just trying to show that this blanket statement is untrue. Personally, I don't buy into the 'fashion' tartan craze. My dance kilt is a created white background tartan (Dress Eildon). But, this was chosen and made long before I found Xmarks and I wish I could afford to make a new one. I might have to though since the daughter has grown out of her beautiful Christina Young kilt. We've been sharing my outfit.

[wildrover]

It shouldn't be presumed that because there's a plethora of white background clan-based 'fashion' tartans obviously created for the feminine market, that ALL white background tartans are of this category.

Oh, I think it's an honest market slant that leads to the misconception that I'm guessing a few of us shared up until about three pages ago.

If you hadn't said anything, I never would've gone looking for that MacLaren dress tartan, and wouldn't have found out that it was created by a gentleman who has a kilt of it.

I still wonder if they'd go for a red-based dress tartan.

-Sean

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Let's see, just off the top of my head I have seen men at Highland Games, Burns Suppers and other functions -- not competitive dancers, but just regular attendees -- wearing kilts in the following dress tartans:
-Dress Blue Stewart, weathered
-Dress MacDonald, weathered
-Dress Campbell, modern
-Dress MacDonald, modern
-Dress MacPherson

None of them looked effemenant in the slightest.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Let's see, just off the top of my head I have seen men at Highland Games, Burns Suppers and other functions -- not competitive dancers, but just regular attendees -- wearing kilts in the following dress tartans:
-Dress Blue Stewart, weathered
-Dress MacDonald, weathered
-Dress Campbell, modern
-Dress MacDonald, modern
-Dress MacPherson

None of them looked effeminate in the slightest.

I profess no great knowledge in this matter but, setting aside the gender issue, surely some of these tartans are today what we'd call fashion tartans, are they not? And some of the others seem to be possessed of an antiquity hardly greater than the average age of the graduating class of one's local university.

I am not questioning those dress tartans such as dress Macpherson which are sanctioned by the chief, or the others without the white background one associates with arisaids and dancer's costumes. Growing up I had a number of great aunts who always referred to "dress Stewart" as "Victoria Tartan" or "Queen Victoria Tartan" even though there seems to be a case to be made that this tartan (or one very similar to it) can be documented to the reign of Charles I.

Rather, it seems to me (looking at lists of tartans) that the plethora of so-called "dress tartans" are of a very recent creation and, like the so-called "black MacMillan tartan", have generally popped up like toad stools on a lawn after a heavy rain.

In 1896 John Wight & Co. took out a two page advertisement in W & AK Johnston's book, The Scottish Clans & Their Tartans, second edition, 1896. Now in this book Johnston's lists 96 tartans while Wight's ad reads:

Every Clan Tartan illustrated in this book being represented in our Stock, along with many other Family,Dress and Hunting Tartans not here described. OUR COMPLETE RANGE NUMBERING OVER 190 TARTANS

Wight's, by the way, was located at 105 Princes Street in Edinburgh, and was a ladies clothing store. With that in mind, one can't help but wonder how many of their "more than 190 tartans" were designed specifically for ladies wear?

I would find it extremely interesting to know three things: (1) how many "dress tartans" are there; (2) from whence do these date; (3) how many have "official standing" within the clan?

Can someone please enlighten me?

[PEEDYC]

I would find it extremely interesting to know three things: (1) how many "dress tartans" are there; (2) from whence do these date; (3) how many have "official standing" within the clan?

Can someone please enlighten me?

http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/qre...g=dress&Page=1
Try this link for a start. It is the Scottish Register of Tartans. It may not help you though if you read the post (49) by MacLowlife re the Campbell tartans. There are Five Campbell (Argyle) tartans registered and Campbell of Loch Awe as well which the Clan Chief does not regognise according to that artice. No wonder people are confused over rights to wear tartans and what is a true tartan.

[Dixiecat]

let's see some white-based tartans that weren't designed for 6 year old girls to dance the Highland Fling, or for hostess dresses, bridal gowns, or miniskirts.

It's funny that this misconception exists. When I went looking for information I plugged 'dress tartan' into google and was looking at the images and I noticed that 80% of the women pictured wearing tartan dresses, were NOT wearing dress tartans. I thought this odd and then went directly to a few highland outfitter websites, and I found the same result!

leads to the misconception that I'm guessing a few of us shared up until about three pages ago

Yay!! Open and inquiring minds are so much better than the opposite.

You know, if I could afford it, I would dearly, dearly love to have a new kilt from the muted Culloden that swallowed up one of our members. I wonder if that tartan has spit him out yet?

[Dixiecat]

Every Clan Tartan illustrated in this book being represented in our Stock, along with many other Family,Dress and Hunting Tartans not here described. OUR COMPLETE RANGE NUMBERING OVER 190 TARTANS
Wight's, by the way, was located at 105 Princes Street in Edinburgh, and was a ladies clothing store. With that in mind, one can't help but wonder how many of their "more than 190 tartans" were designed specifically for ladies wear?

Probably very few to none. This was 1896 after all when Dress meant more than that garment worn by ladies.

"We have never gone in for dress, undress, dress down, fancy dress, hunting or any other such descriptions..."

As you can see from this quote by the chief of the MacGregor Clan, he uses 'dress' immediately followed by 'undress' which refers to MEN's formal and unformal wear. He is not referring to ladies garments at all.

[Pleater]

Over time the use of white for garments - in particular those made from wool has altered in significance.

The whiteness of the arisaid could be due to the cheapness of the natural coloured yarn as opposed to the expense of coloured yarns before chemical dyes were developed. There might have been light medium and dark tones of yarn, from the natural colours of the local sheep, and a lightweight fabric produced from it. Women's garments have, historically, been more concealing than a man's, but of lighter materials. That is why I have remarked on a couple of occasions on the forum that any lightweight kilt 27 inches long is most likely a woman's garment, even though constructed in the same way as one for a man.

I have an interest in knitted garments, and jerseys worn when men's trousers were loose and high waisted, with the jersey worn underneath, often had white for the lower part of the body, with a few single rows of coloured yarn at intervals. At the level where the garment emerged from the trousers the yarn changed to the more expensive dyed colours, sometimes with small amounts of white and other natural sheep colours added where appropriate.

The colour would have been a light cream, the natural colour of a sheep, as ways to whiten wool without destroying its strength are a relatively recent discovery. Chlorine bleach dissolves wool.

Over time white became more posh and up market, so it would be correct for tartans which were being devised for dress occasions to be mostly white and with a Victorian sensibility at work red would be equated with scarlet, sure as eggs.

White was also considered more suitable for a delicate complexion, which was also prized in Victorian England, and Negro servants were likely to be dressed in red plush (velvet). Having read a considerable number of old novels I don't recall that there was ever a reference to any other colour in which to dress a person with a dark complexion. Nubile English girls were always dressed in white, perhaps with a few ribbons in pastel shades to differentiate it from mourning wear at the appropriate interval after the death.

The Royal court exerted a considerable power, the colour of a dress worn by a Princess could alter the whole of upper class society wardrobes within weeks, and change the fortunes of anyone able to copy the colour and style in time for the next society occasion.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[MacLowlife]

An excellent and authoritative book has been written on Campbell tartans and every Campbell family should have one in their reference library. The Campbell tartan authorized by the Chief as appropriate for all of Clan Campbell is known in the clan as Campbell tartan and in the trade by various names; "ancient Campbell", "Black Watch", "ancient Black Watch". The colors are ONLY green, black and blue. The shades or tones of the colors may vary from different weavers but the choice of these is a matter for your taste.

Almost all published books on Scottish clans and Tartans, with the exception of the second edition of that by the late Sir Ian Moncreiffe, have errors in their illustrations for Clan Campbell. The confusion results from asking the weavers instead of the Chiefs about which is their clan's tartan.

There are other specific tartans authorized for descendants of the Loudoun, Breadalbane and Cawdor branches of Clan Campbell. The trade has not created the same deliberate or thoughtless confusion about these, although they may be hard to find.

"Argyle", with white and yellow lines, and "Dress", with areas of white, are NOT AUTHORIZED tartans, although the Argyle is heavily promoted by the trade. Those who already posess non-authorized tartans should not hesitate to wear them. However if innocently stuck with those, you may like to wear a tie, plaid or scarf of authorized tartan so as to show your loyalty to the authority of Clan Campbell and in order to be able to show others the right tartan to buy. That is for you to choose.

Please visit Clan Campbell Tartans for detailed information on the correct tartans. Also, a number of members of the Clan Campbell Society (North America) Executive Council are very knowledgeable in tartans history and welcome the opportunity to assist new Clan Campbell kilt and tartan buyers in making the correct choices.


(and the text referred to in the link)


Here is how our late chief, The 12th Duke of Argyll, and re-affirmed by our current Chief, The 13th Duke of Argyll, MacCailein Mor, summed up the official position on Campbell tartans consistently declared for nearly two centuries by successive Chiefs of Clan Campbell:


"...the only tartans which I recognize are, firstly, the one you see me and my wife wearing, which goes under various names, such as ordinary Campbell, Ancient Campbell, etc., and all members of our clan who are not specifically identified with [the Houses of Breadalbane, Cawdor [or] Loudoun are entitled to wear it.

Let me get rid, once and for all, of the thought that there is a 'Campbell of Argyll' [tartan]. While it is true that the Sixth Duke [of Argyll - b.1768 - s.1806 - d.1839] introduced a white line to his plain Campbell tartan to differentiate himself from the rest of the Campbells, (he being the chief and entitled to do so), he was the only member of the family so to do and the rest of the family thought he was rather pompous to do it.

Campbell of Breadalbane--fine [to wear].

Campbell of Cawdor--fine.

Campbell of Loudoun--fine.

Campbell of Glenlyon--I have never heard of it.

Campbell of Loch Awe-this is plain ridiculous, as we are all Campbells of Loch Awe originally. - Apart from anything else, I have never heard of a Campbell of Loch Awe tartan, nor do I wish to do so.

THERE IS NO DRESS CAMPBELL [TARTAN]--repeat! repeat! repeat!

There is NO HUNTING CAMPBELL.

There is NO CAMPRELL RED.

There is NO CAMPBELL - SIMPSON.

There are no Campbell cheques, other than commercial ones...

If I feel strongly about anything and would like it inscribed on my tombstone, there might be a few lines such as 'All Campbells with the exception of the three principal septs [the Houses of Breadalbane, Cawdor and Loudoun] should wear plain undifferentiated Campbell for evermore and not get confused by peddlers of this [other] material that comes under all sorts of guises.

Yours ever,
Your Kinsman and Chief,
Argyll"


[From a letter to the late William A. Mitchell, Clan Campbell Society, U.S.A. genealogist.]

To summarize, then, there are just four authentic Campbell tartans: Ancient or "plain" Campbell, Campbell of Breadalbane, Campbell of Cawdor, and Campbell of Loudoun. To be faithful to Scottish tradition, only those descended from the Houses of Breadalbane, Cawdor and Loudoun should wear the tartans belonging to those houses; all other Campbells and members of other Campbell septs should wear Ancient or "plain" Campbell tartan, which is composed of threads of only three colors: blue, green and black--with no overstripes of any other color.

Ancient Campbell is the same as Black Watch tartan--hardly surprising, since that illustrious regiment is a Campbell regiment, raised by the Duke of Argyll in 1739. (Indeed, as Alastair Campbell of Airds, Chief Executive of Clan Campbell, has indicated in his authoritative book Campbell Tartan, the Black Watch tartan may well have been adopted as the clan's tartan because so many members of the clan were already wearing it, owing to their service in the regiment.)

The Black Watch tartan is today usually made in darker shades of green and blue, while Ancient Campbell is made in lighter, brighter shades. Some Campbells wear the lighter Ancient Campbell for day wear and the darker Black Watch for evening and formal wear--the important point being that they are the same tartan. Remember, it is the "sett", or thread count of a tartan that distinguishes it from other tartans, not the comparative lightness or darkness of their colors, which in early days could vary greatly due to the unpredictable nature of vegetable dyes. So, caveat emptor: before you buy anything purporting to be Ancient Campbell or Black Watch tartan, be sure it has the correct sett, with first one pair of black "railroad tracks" on the blue, and then two pair, then one pair, and so on.

For further authoritative information on Campbell tartans, including color illustrations of the four authentic tartans, consult Campbell Tartan, by Alastair Campbell of Airds, available from a number of specialty booksellers handling books on Scottish subjects, such as Unicorn Limited, Inc., (Scotpress.com) P.O. Box 125, Loachapoka, AL 36865.