I AM KILTED!!

[Dreadbelly]

I am sorry for going off topic, but, I got to ask some folk older and wiser then I am...

How can they do that? The English I mean. The whole Blackwatch thing. How can the English just cast them off like that? These men were blown to hamburger in so many wars. They had suicide missions. They crawled the trenches and bore the brunt of war on their shoulders... And how can they be treated as nothing more then common expendable infantry? How in the hell could they just go home and be mostly forgotten like that? I, well, I just don't understand. I am not from England. I don't know the politics as well I would like. And I don't know half as much as I should. I know there is a lot of tension between the Scots and the English, but hell, HOW could anybody just cast somebody off like that? How could somebody just belittle somebody like that? Really pisses me off. I guess I don't understand. I am not sure I want to. How could somebody go home to their own country and receive what is a lukewarm welcome at best... But come to America and be recognized as a hero? What gives... I am ignorant on these issues.

[Magnus Sporrano]

Dread... you can honor them by learning more and writing about your findings. Interview this veteran and learn what you can. Yes, the people here will be interested in his thoughts on the gear itself but we're also interested in the memories that will soon die with him if they aren't written down and shared. You obviously have the ability and the talent. You have inspired me to try to learn more about Black Watch. Run with it!

[macwilkin]

Fellas,

Point of clarification: the full name of the regiment is The Royal Highland Regiment (The Black Watch) -- two words, not one. The name of the Tartan is offically "Government", as in "Government Sett", because other regiments have worn it in the past, and some still continue to do so, such as the Black Watch of Canada, the Argyll-Sutherland Highlanders, etc.

A nice history of the RHR can be found here:

http://www.btinternet.com/~james.mckay/bwatch42.htm

As for the Scots v. English dispute, there certainly is a rivalry, even sometimes an animosity between soldiers of the two nationalities, but a couple of points to remember:

1. Most Scottish Regiments have never had their full quota filled by Scots -- you'll find Irish (of course!), English, and now Fijians and Gurkhas make up the other ranks of the Scottish regiments, as well as other residents of the British Commonwealth. The RHR has a large contingent from Fiji, and the Royal Scots have quite a few Gurkhas. There is an old joke about someone seeing a Gordon Highlander at prayer in a synagogue in Aberdeen!

For a more comic look at the Scottish Regiments, see George MacDonald Fraser's "MacAuslan" series (The General danced at dawn, MacAuslan in the Rough, etc.) -- Fraser served in the Burma campaign in the Border Regiment (a North County English regiment with a hard-fighting reputation) and then as an officer in the Gordons.

2. I'm certainly not questioning this gentleman's memory, but the Brits I've talked to who served in the British Army have nothing but the deepest respect for the Scottish Regiments, and if nothing, a wee bit o' envy for their esprit de corps, although many English County Regiments have impressive histories themselves (the Northumberland Fusiliers immediately come to mind, as well as the Royal Hampshires). Usually in every WWII movie where there are Brits, there is usually a piper or someone from a Highland Regiments -- the Highlander became a symbol of the British Army because of their distinctive dress to many people around the World.

The Welsh Regiments and the Scots hated each other far worse than the Scots & English -- don't ask me why. A good book to understand the customs and traditions of the British Army is "Mr. Kipling's Army" by Byron Farwell. Great read!

Sir Winston Churchill, the most famous Englishman of WWII, had nothing but praise for his Highlanders; he called the Gordons "the finest regiment in the world", and Sir Winston should know: he served with the Royal Scots Fusiliers in WWI! It is said that when he reviewed the 8th Army in Tripoli during the North African Campaign, the 51st Highland Division marched by singing the very bawdy and downright pornographic Scottish folk song "The Ball of Kerrimuir" (anyone here know that one -- I am still working on all 100+ verses! :mrgreen -- Churchill broke into a big smile when he heard the lyrics, and the BBC had to destroy their recording, because their film obviously couldn't be shown at home! :mrgreen:

Whew! Sorry to prattle on, have to put that history degree to guid use every now and again!

Cheers,

T.

[Magnus Sporrano]

Great info!

Interesting note, which I will certainly keep in mind when I order my Black Watch kilt:

"The pleats of the kilt worn by The Black Watch are rounded, whereas the kilts of other Highland regiments have flat pleats."

[GMan]

I am so glad that you are finally kilted GREAT NEWS

The story you told brought tears to my eyes, that is well worth remembering as a great joy of kilting.

You have done well

[RockyR]

I am sorry for going off topic, but, I got to ask some folk older and wiser then I am...

How can they do that? The English I mean. The whole Blackwatch thing. How can the English just cast them off like that? These men were blown to hamburger in so many wars. They had suicide missions. They crawled the trenches and bore the brunt of war on their shoulders... And how can they be treated as nothing more then common expendable infantry? How in the hell could they just go home and be mostly forgotten like that? I, well, I just don't understand. I am not from England. I don't know the politics as well I would like. And I don't know half as much as I should. I know there is a lot of tension between the Scots and the English, but hell, HOW could anybody just cast somebody off like that? How could somebody just belittle somebody like that? Really pisses me off. I guess I don't understand. I am not sure I want to. How could somebody go home to their own country and receive what is a lukewarm welcome at best... But come to America and be recognized as a hero? What gives... I am ignorant on these issues.

Yeh how could they do that? We came home and they spit on some of us, called us baby killers and rapers. Said we commited atrocities everyday from the lowest ranking to the highest levels of command. Even some of our own accused us of this. Now do you still wonder why some of us are bent out of shape about it? But never mind that.. we were just Vietnam war vets, it doesn't matter.

Sorry Doug, I feel very sorry for this man and I hope next time I am in Greenville we can meet with him together. Hope your encounter with him makes you see Vietnam vets in a new light. You unintentionally opened up some pretty deep wounds which did not come from bullets or hand grenades. But thank you for sharing. I really appreciated that.

[Blu (Ontario)]

I am sorry for going off topic, but, ...

I thought your post was very much On-Topic and well told also.!

[RockyR]

I am sorry for going off topic, but, ...

I thought your post was very much On-Topic and well told also.!

Yes it was indeed.. Definately on topic, It's great!

[Dreadbelly]

While I was not yet born in the Nam era, I have a lot of my own opinions and feelings on the issue based on my readings and studies of it all. And I personally feel that the vets got shafted.

I helped my wife's father get his Agent Orange payoff. He didn't even know it existed. I spent a lot of time, energy, and effort to make sure he had some small compensation. This man is a racist biggot, has done nothing but ridicule me, sling racial slurs at me, and generally make my life miserable for marrying his daughter. But I did it anyway because I feel that as a human being, he got shafted. I did it because I feel like he deserves it.

JohnAllen, and others on this board in that brotherhood, I would like to take a moment to say thanks. And I mean that. I will most likely never fully understand what happened, but my heart goes out to you.

[Muddy]

Man, the first post was great. Fart jokes and all.
But the second one was extroardinary. Thanks for sharing more of the gentlemans' story. What a lucky and blessed individual you are to have run across him. Made me wish very much I had been there to meet him. I sincerely hope you run into him again. I think you should definately wear your Black Watch with pride. Sounds like you got the go-ahead from that guy to me. Keep us posted of any future meetings or developements will you?
Yours aye,
Muddy