Is this how you feel?

[katmills2005]

The first time I brought my children to kiltnight, my son was not sure about wearing his kilt. He wanted to, I could see it in his eyes. He just didn't seem ready. I did coax him into putting it on over his shorts (he is by no means ready to go comando) As the night went on he became more comfortable. But all of the sudden he wanted to take the kilt off. I am almost certain someone we passed on the street or in a shop must have made him feel uncomfortable.

He took the kilt off... but Thanks to Dread and Brett, Jim was wanting it back on about ten minutes later. They helped to bost his confidence through understanding and letting him work through his thoughts. They went on down the street as if nothing was wrong. If they had taken a different approach he probably would not have put the kilt back on, and may not have worn it for the next kiltnight. Now, my son is ready for his second kilt and asks frequently when the next kiltnight is.

I agree with other statements that wearing a kilt is a matter of choice. If someone is uncomfortable, pushing the issue would only add to that discomfort. Showing your own confidence while wearing a kilt will do far more good.

-A woman's Perspective

[Martin S]

Me, on the other hand...I found this disturbing:

... this wild assumption ... that it "matters more to some"
... questioning how you can logically project this kind of attitude or feeling onto others here

Here?
What made you think I was referring to members of the forum?
Not at all.

Martin

[MacSimoin]

Martin,

I didn't say that you referred to others (i.e. anyone specific) here at Xmarks...I said that you were projecting this assumption or feeling (that you have) onto others here; in other words, you assume that others here feel the same way about wearing kilts as you seem to think everyone does (re the comment I quoted previously). And that to me, is the wrong thing to do.

If you feel sexually amibiguous wearing kilts (or whomever it was you were referring to), that's something that you (or they) will have to deal with elsewhere...to come here and make such a brash generalization is in poor taste and insulting to other kilt wearers.

Addendum:

In retrospect, I doubt your statement [that "we" feel ambiguity] as an innocuous or casual musing. Why not clarify yourself and qualify your position? If not "you Xmarkers", then who is it that you say feels this way? I can't comprehend how you can make such a blanket statement and then run away from it...Especially since now that I've re-read your initial post, "us Xmarkers" is directly whom you were asking the question posed in the title of this thread, and if not "us Xmarkers", then just who is it you address and/or pigeon-hole with "...we still have some subconscious feeling of sexual ambiguity"?

[Martin S]

Methinks he doth protest too much !

I wrote, asking Xmarkers how they felt about kiltwearing:

"{my friend} could not face wearing his kilt unaccompanied...
Do you have to be accompanied to appear in public? (by a female to prove you are not gay? is that it?) "

To clarify, I later added:
"however at ease men may appear to be kilted in certain surroundings and company, they still feel very ill at ease when circumstances change slightly.
Even though we regard our kilts as masculine, we still have some subconscious feeling of sexual ambiguity"

because it is difficut to find any other explanation (I discount excuses such as not wanting to spoil the pleats).

In my mind, I was writing about the 'sexual ambiguity' percieved by the public, but, such is our education (or brainwashing), I really think it is in our heads too.

People go around in the most outrageous getups, not forgetting piercings, tatouings, shavings, but going unbifurcated is somehow different.

If you do not agree that even we Xmarkers can feel/do feel ill at ease in some places, just go read the 50000 posts written here. No-one feels the same way about pulling onn a kilt as he does about a t-shirt for example

Martin

[Colin]

Interesting topic.

When I first started wearing kilts and visiting the online forums, I got hooked. I tried to find any occasion I could to wear a kilt. However overtime I started to feel more and more pressure to wear kilts more often and to make it a day to day garment. It seemed (still does) that some people want everyone of us to be kilted full time to send some kind of message. So I found myself wearing kilts all the time, even when they were not really a good choice, and spending $$$$$ on kilts. There has been a bit of attitude from some full timers, looking for a revolution or cause, to get everyone in a kilt all the time. I think people should wear them whenever they want to.

I have now gotten passed on a bunch of my casual kilts and enjoy having a good selection of 2 (3rd on it's way) kilts to be worn on the occasions that I really want to be wearing a kilt. I don't need to feel peer presurred or bullyied into buying more kilts or to wear one everyday of the week. People can except my decision or that can not, it matters little to me.

As for being aprehensive of wearing the kilt from time to time....sure, I feel it sometimes. Usually it is on those occasions when you know you will be the only guy in a kilt in a strange environment, but within about 2-3 minutes that aprehension is usually gone.

[PiobBear]

(I discount excuses such as not wanting to spoil the pleats).

Why? Often it's important not to look crumpled when you arrive, and when you arrive at home, properly pressing 25-30 pleats can be quite a chore.

[MacSimoin]

Methinks he doth protest too much !


I wrote, asking Xmarkers how they felt about kiltwearing:

"{my friend} could not face wearing his kilt unaccompanied...
Do you have to be accompanied to appear in public? (by a female to prove you are not gay? is that it?) "

To clarify, I later added:
"however at ease men may appear to be kilted in certain surroundings and company, they still feel very ill at ease when circumstances change slightly.
Even though we regard our kilts as masculine, we still have some subconscious feeling of sexual ambiguity"

because it is difficut to find any other explanation (I discount excuses such as not wanting to spoil the pleats).

In my mind, I was writing about the 'sexual ambiguity' percieved by the public, but, such is our education (or brainwashing), I really think it is in our heads too.

People go around in the most outrageous getups, not forgetting piercings, tatouings, shavings, but going unbifurcated is somehow different.

If you do not agree that even we Xmarkers can feel/do feel ill at ease in some places, just go read the 50000 posts written here. No-one feels the same way about pulling onn a kilt as he does about a t-shirt for example

Martin

It's interesting that you've take a defensive posture. At first you distance yourself and now your part of the equation..."we" Xmarkers? If you'd clairified your feelings (in your first post) that the public perceives us (as you seem to think) as sexually ambiguous because of our kilt wearing, everything you wrote would make more sense. But since you did not and chose to explain yourself as quoted above: I'm not buying what you're selling, and you're certainly not telling me or anyone else here anything new. But, I feel you should have been responsible enough to say what you mean and mean what you say...the first time. We could avoid a lot less time trying to decipher one another's words.

Personally, I think we (you and me) live in different worlds and that's probably why I don't understand your positions or your stated opinions (and vice versa). Do I feel sexual ambiguity when I wear a kilt? No...I never have, no matter what I wear (and I wear t-shirts quite often, too). Do I think the people around me, or those where I live see me as sexually ambiguous? I really don't believe that for one minute, not with at least 90% of them (that's clarification). Do I feel nervous or apprehensive about wearing my kilts (wherever I may be)? Why should I be? Again, no...and I mean no, not once, not ever. But that's just me...like it or leave it...I could give a damn about how anyone feels about me being kilted. The difference here (personally speaking) is a matter of confidence: I have it...and many, many others Xmarkers have it as well.

Please don't think everyone everywhere perceives kilt wearing the same way, or that every non-kilted person ("the public") perceives those who are kilted as sexually ambiguous...that's hardly very fair of you to do, especially when making these assumptions on a kilt forum.

With that being said, good luck to your friend. Regardless of what you think or whatever it was that you perceived he was thinking (by not showing up kilted at your class), he did what he felt was right for himself and not for teacher.

[PiobBear]

No-one feels the same way about pulling onn a kilt as he does about a t-shirt for example

No, I really don't feel much different about donning a kilt from a pair of trousers (or a T shirt). I do feel different dressing for a pub crawl (Saturday), a ceremony with our honor guard (Sunday), or a formal wedding (Friday), but I also feel different donning blue jeans, a uniform, or a tuxedo. Neither do I feel any trace of "sexual ambiguity"; why should I? The kilt is a man's garment.
Perhaps it's due to the context in which I often wear a kilt, but what I do often feel is part of a long continuum of history and tradition. Tomorrow I will don my uniform (kilted) and pipe "Flowers of the Forest" for our Sergeant-at-Arms, a man who spent his lifetime in service to his country, at a Legion memorial service, with a tune written to commemorate the dead of Flodden 400 years ago just as pipers have done for nearly as long. Among those who will be in attendance are two past Post Commanders, one SAS and a Chindit, another a Hurricane pilot, our current Commander with both US and Canadian jump wings from Korea, and a former Pipe Major of the 48th Highlanders, to name a few. I care, deeply, what those guys think of my kilt and my piping. As for the rest of the world, I couldn't give a rat's patootie what other people think. If you think that's false bravado or indicative of unresolved sexual identity issues, well, everyone's entitled to their opinion; but please re-read the previous sentence.

(By the way, I'll not only be wearing a sgian dubh, but a dirk too)

[Frog]

Ambiguity is going to based on temperament - i suspect that by wearing a kilt you don't mind standing out, but one does need to decide (preferably before hand) how to deal with any potential fallout, hence the ambiguity. I live in a conservative community (state! - Idaho), standing out is not a good thing. Support is a good thing, when doing something that makes you stand out from the crowd. Going to a play or other "artistic" event is much easier than going to the local tav (can you say flannel and levis? Harleys and the occasional colors?). I used to spend a couple a days a week playing pool at a local watering hole (the free days, I'm not that good), did it for a couple of years. I have a bit of trepidation about going there kilted, even tho' I know the owners and the old-timers...gonna have to give that a shot, soon. aren't I?

Frog

[elitekiltedcommando]

No-one feels the same way about pulling onn a kilt as he does about a t-shirt for example

I can't speak for others, but if anything, to me, pants are what are weird. I've been wearing a kilt since October of 2006. Not very long, yes, but enough to realize kilts are for me. When I wear one of my kilts, I don't feel special or different. I feel comfortable. So yes, to me it is like, as you say, 'a t-shirt'