The OUTRAGEOUS Price of kilts!

[ozone]

After reading through this thread, I have come to the following conclusion:

Clearly, there is a need to do what Walmart has done for every other product in the world: have it all made in china!

Seriously though, I am impressed and humbled by the cost & time involved in kiltmaking. It is a shame that true skills like kilt making, blacksmithing etc. are non-profitable because people are not willing to pay what they are worth.

Not to get political, but I have often used my wife and my experience in Scotland as an example of paying what something actually costs. In the USA, we all often pay about $2-3 for a 1 lb bag of baby carrots. This is because of subsidies, cheap (illegal?) labor, tax breaks to large agri-businesses etc. When we were in Scotland, we bought a 300g bag of baby carrots (less than 1/2 a pound!) and we paid about 1.50 pounds ($3). I noticed that the carrots in Scotland came from Spain. This is another EU country and they are required to provide a living wage, health insurance, etc to their workers. So, we paid what baby carrots most likely actually cost.

I have often wondered what would happen to the USA if all tariffs, protections, subsidies and other Federal and state help were removed? Perhaps we would become a much less wasteful culture and we wouldn't think twice about a $500-800 kilt.....

[Alan H]

While I still think that the Scottish Mills aren't ripping us off, admittedly Arrocgow has a point. I don't think that worsted wool 13 ounce can easily cost $8 a yard, but it doesn't have to cost $70 a yard, either. I'm guessing what drives the price throught he roof is the wide variety of tartans they produce.

Examples of tartan woolens that DON'T cost what the Scottish Mills charge...

Amana Woolens Blanket
http://www.amanawoolenmill.com/store...&svSubGroupID=

$50 for what is essentially a two-yard piece...ie $25 a yard.

Northwest Woolen Mills also produces blankets in solid and simple checks. The blankets are both 100% wool and various blends. The price is amazingly low. Of course, you have to buy 50 of them!

http://www.northwestwoolen.com/bedblankets.htm

I wonder if they can do a tartan run? I wonder what the difference is between producing blankets and producing tartan

Here's a throw from Woolrich.

http://www.woolrich.com/CGI-BIN/LANS...D5506Z+PRD+ENG

Great price! Note the product details...wool/acrylic blend and imported. I wonder where it was made?

On the other hand, here is a selection of blankets from several USA and European Woolen Mills. One of them is the Faribault Mill, one of the oldest Mills in the USA. Note the prices for what is essentially 2 yards of double-width cloth; from about $55 a yard to about $75 a yard.

http://www.orgonelab.org/cgi-bin/sho...=yblankets.htm

Finally, something to note.... I didn't look all That hard, and of course everybody knows about Pendleton Woolen Mills. but you know, I found a fair number of USA-based woolen mills that made blankets...quite a few that made cotton things, but almost NONE that made actual wool cloth. Lots of places produce yarn, in fact that's almost a cottage industry. People that keep 100 sheep or 50 alpaca produce their own yarn.

But strangely enough, I didn't find many references to actual cloth-producing, wool-utilizing mills in the USA or Canada. I bet I know why, too....

...because they can't compete with the incredibly low prices of cloth coming out of Asia and Central America. I don't KNOW that, but I *bet* that's the case. When the Chinese and Indians and Indonesians decide that there's a market for worsted, yarn-dyed wool and they can make a significant amount of money at it, then there will be inexpensive kilting wool around.

[mddock58]

Here in NYC there are fabric stores that sell wool plaids for $14.00 yd.

That's because of the Fashion District, and you will not find this kind of price or selection everywhere. They sell to wholesalers, and retail.

Now you may find a tartan pattern there (Black Watch, Royal Stewart), but more likely they will be "fashion plaids". The weight is probably 11-13 oz, but you may also find "coating wools" that are the more heavyweight for a bit higher price.

If you take the time to dig through them all, you may find something to make a nice kilt from, but most that I have seen do not have a "kilting" selvedge, so you would need to hem them.

[Robin]

The Dutch Friendship tartan (Lochcarron) prices:

10oz (140cm wide) per metre €40,15
13oz (140cm wide) per metre €41,85
16oz (140cm wide) per metre €42,15

(€40=$54,09)

Add P&P (actual cost) and 5% PayPal share

Feel free to contact me

[Pour1Malt]

ai have said several times oan this board-

ya get whit ya pay fur!

ai have nay interest in supportin' oiny kind o' thirdworld sweatshop that makes a cheepo kilt...

ai happily pay the REAL price o' a kilt tae my local Scottish kiltmaker...

[drobin]

Greetings Kilties!

Since the thread has swung to the fabric process: I’ve got a question. What makes a tartan “old or rare”, and where does the additional cost come into play? Case in point; I want my next Kilt done in the Dyce tartan, which will cost me more than my McDuff modern, if its the same style and from the same maker. Money is tight so I don't see that happening... switching to Plan B.

[Barb T]

Yep. Lot's of work. But different folks have vastly different time requirements. A year or so ago I was cruising around the site of one of the bigger kiltmakers in Scotland (s***y, I don't recall which one), and he said that he turned out two handsewn finished kilts a day, and if pressed could do three. I think that if a maker was actually investing 25-30 hours, plus hundreds for material, he/she would quickly give it up as uneconomic even at $600 each.

What this kilt house told you is simply, utterly impossible unless more than one person is working on a kilt and there's some kind of production line. Even though I work in true speedy fashion, I can't make a kilt in under 18-20 hours, and that's even if I sew the top band on by machine, which is the only machine stitching in any kilt that I make (and I hand sew that part if I don't happen to be at home). Those of us who make kilts professionally have nothing to gain by being pokey! Every one of us works as efficiently and rapidly as possible, because, as Alan pointed out, we don't make much per hour.

In the spirit of Alan's back-of-the-envelope calculations, here's what it would take to make one kilt in four hours (not including bathroom or coffee breaks!):

layout: I'll give you about 15 minutes for determining apron/pleats split, marking length, ripping the tartan, figuring out pleat pattern, pleat size, marking all pleats, and basting apron edges.

pleats: I'll give you a generous 1 hour to do the pleats. Let's suppose 25 pleats. That's a bit over 2 minutes per pleat. At about 10 stitches per inch and 8" per pleat, you'd need to do one stitch a second and still manage to get each pleat measured and pinned in under 40 seconds.

and then I'll give you about 15 minutes for each of the following:
-making the back join (requires two seams), turning up the bottom in two places, and basting the pleats (5 rows of stitching)
-cutting out the pleats and steeking the pleats
-putting in the stabilizer, tailor basting the apron and underapron shaping, and reinforcing the buttonhole
-sewing canvas into the apron, underapron, and back (4-5 rows of tailor stitching plus basting the rest)
-making and shaping the fringe edge and underapron edges, tailor basting, and hand stitching the edges
-sewing on the top band (2 sets of basting stitches and two lines of permanent stitching) and loops, if the kilt has them
-pressing the kilt (this alone takes 30-40 minutes if you do a good job, not including drying time)
-making the buckle tabs and sewing on the buckles and straps
-lining the apron, underapron, and back of the kilt
-removing all of the basting stitches (this alone takes 20 minutes if you've basted properly)

There's not a single step above that can be done in 15 minutes, and many of those steps are more like hour jobs or more. So how someone could say with a straight face that he can turn out 2 handsewn traditional kilts a day is beyond me!!

Cheers,

Barb

[Kiltferone]

As a newbie buying my first kilt I had no idea how much time went into one. I should not be surprised though. I build custom wood furniture and small crafts as a hobby. I sell a few pieces a year. (I don't keep track of my time I would be to depressed to know.) This money goes right back into my hobby. People ask me all the time why I don't do it full time. It is the same answer as here. Very hard to do custom handmade work and make a living at it. So I hope someday to be able to have a handmade custom kilt made and I will have no problems paying the price. Thanks for a great thread!

[Panache]

Folks consider this a warning shot.

I have found this thread to be really interesting and it makes me appreciate my handsewn kilts all the more. Kudos to all of X Marks the Scot's skilled Kiltmakers.

But understanding how a quality handmade kilt is sewn and appreciating the costs involved in terms of materials and labor does not neccesarily mean we need to bash kilts that are manufactured elsewhere. Such as:

ai have said several times oan this board-

ya get whit ya pay fur!

ai have nay interest in supportin' oiny kind o' thirdworld sweatshop that makes a cheepo kilt...

And I have said several times on this board that many a kilt wearer would never have ordered his first handmade "tank" had it not been for the reasonably priced alternatives available to see if they liked wearing one.

Is anything manufactured in a factory going to hold up in a comparison to a handsewn kilt? Of course not.

But if the only option was a $500 to 600 kilt and another $500-600 in accessories then there would be a lot less people on this forum.

Consider that perhaps a lot of people here just can't afford that kind of money. Maybe someday, but not for a while. Do you wish to deny them the experience of wearing Highland Garb? Should kilts be only for the wealthy?

There is a place on X Marks the Scot for all kinds of kilts and kilt wearers.

Let's be respectful to all.

Cheers

Jamie

[CameronTaylor]

I read it as an opinion, not a bash ...


CT -

but what do i know.