The OUTRAGEOUS Price of kilts!

[ozone]

After reading through this thread, I have come to the following conclusion:

Clearly, there is a need to do what Walmart has done for every other product in the world: have it all made in china!

Seriously though, I am impressed and humbled by the cost & time involved in kiltmaking. It is a shame that true skills like kilt making, blacksmithing etc. are non-profitable because people are not willing to pay what they are worth.

Not to get political, but I have often used my wife and my experience in Scotland as an example of paying what something actually costs. In the USA, we all often pay about $2-3 for a 1 lb bag of baby carrots. This is because of subsidies, cheap (illegal?) labor, tax breaks to large agri-businesses etc. When we were in Scotland, we bought a 300g bag of baby carrots (less than 1/2 a pound!) and we paid about 1.50 pounds ($3). I noticed that the carrots in Scotland came from Spain. This is another EU country and they are required to provide a living wage, health insurance, etc to their workers. So, we paid what baby carrots most likely actually cost.

I have often wondered what would happen to the USA if all tariffs, protections, subsidies and other Federal and state help were removed? Perhaps we would become a much less wasteful culture and we wouldn't think twice about a $500-800 kilt.....

[Alan H]

While I still think that the Scottish Mills aren't ripping us off, admittedly Arrocgow has a point. I don't think that worsted wool 13 ounce can easily cost $8 a yard, but it doesn't have to cost $70 a yard, either. I'm guessing what drives the price throught he roof is the wide variety of tartans they produce.

Examples of tartan woolens that DON'T cost what the Scottish Mills charge...

Amana Woolens Blanket
http://www.amanawoolenmill.com/store...&svSubGroupID=

$50 for what is essentially a two-yard piece...ie $25 a yard.

Northwest Woolen Mills also produces blankets in solid and simple checks. The blankets are both 100% wool and various blends. The price is amazingly low. Of course, you have to buy 50 of them!

http://www.northwestwoolen.com/bedblankets.htm

I wonder if they can do a tartan run? I wonder what the difference is between producing blankets and producing tartan

Here's a throw from Woolrich.

http://www.woolrich.com/CGI-BIN/LANS...D5506Z+PRD+ENG

Great price! Note the product details...wool/acrylic blend and imported. I wonder where it was made?

On the other hand, here is a selection of blankets from several USA and European Woolen Mills. One of them is the Faribault Mill, one of the oldest Mills in the USA. Note the prices for what is essentially 2 yards of double-width cloth; from about $55 a yard to about $75 a yard.

http://www.orgonelab.org/cgi-bin/sho...=yblankets.htm

Finally, something to note.... I didn't look all That hard, and of course everybody knows about Pendleton Woolen Mills. but you know, I found a fair number of USA-based woolen mills that made blankets...quite a few that made cotton things, but almost NONE that made actual wool cloth. Lots of places produce yarn, in fact that's almost a cottage industry. People that keep 100 sheep or 50 alpaca produce their own yarn.

But strangely enough, I didn't find many references to actual cloth-producing, wool-utilizing mills in the USA or Canada. I bet I know why, too....

...because they can't compete with the incredibly low prices of cloth coming out of Asia and Central America. I don't KNOW that, but I *bet* that's the case. When the Chinese and Indians and Indonesians decide that there's a market for worsted, yarn-dyed wool and they can make a significant amount of money at it, then there will be inexpensive kilting wool around.

[mddock58]

Here in NYC there are fabric stores that sell wool plaids for $14.00 yd.

That's because of the Fashion District, and you will not find this kind of price or selection everywhere. They sell to wholesalers, and retail.

Now you may find a tartan pattern there (Black Watch, Royal Stewart), but more likely they will be "fashion plaids". The weight is probably 11-13 oz, but you may also find "coating wools" that are the more heavyweight for a bit higher price.

If you take the time to dig through them all, you may find something to make a nice kilt from, but most that I have seen do not have a "kilting" selvedge, so you would need to hem them.

[Robin]

The Dutch Friendship tartan (Lochcarron) prices:

10oz (140cm wide) per metre €40,15
13oz (140cm wide) per metre €41,85
16oz (140cm wide) per metre €42,15

(€40=$54,09)

Add P&P (actual cost) and 5% PayPal share

Feel free to contact me

[Pour1Malt]

ai have said several times oan this board-

ya get whit ya pay fur!

ai have nay interest in supportin' oiny kind o' thirdworld sweatshop that makes a cheepo kilt...

ai happily pay the REAL price o' a kilt tae my local Scottish kiltmaker...

[Panache]

Folks consider this a warning shot.

I have found this thread to be really interesting and it makes me appreciate my handsewn kilts all the more. Kudos to all of X Marks the Scot's skilled Kiltmakers.

But understanding how a quality handmade kilt is sewn and appreciating the costs involved in terms of materials and labor does not neccesarily mean we need to bash kilts that are manufactured elsewhere. Such as:

ai have said several times oan this board-

ya get whit ya pay fur!

ai have nay interest in supportin' oiny kind o' thirdworld sweatshop that makes a cheepo kilt...

And I have said several times on this board that many a kilt wearer would never have ordered his first handmade "tank" had it not been for the reasonably priced alternatives available to see if they liked wearing one.

Is anything manufactured in a factory going to hold up in a comparison to a handsewn kilt? Of course not.

But if the only option was a $500 to 600 kilt and another $500-600 in accessories then there would be a lot less people on this forum.

Consider that perhaps a lot of people here just can't afford that kind of money. Maybe someday, but not for a while. Do you wish to deny them the experience of wearing Highland Garb? Should kilts be only for the wealthy?

There is a place on X Marks the Scot for all kinds of kilts and kilt wearers.

Let's be respectful to all.

Cheers

Jamie

[Kilted-Marine]

ai have nay interest in supportin' oiny kind o' thirdworld sweatshop that makes a cheepo kilt...

Some times you read a post and think "man, I just need to leave it alone" and I usually do, but just this once - I will place myself square in the firing line.
I can not speak for any other seller except myself BUT the weavers that produce the items we sell are not running a sweat mill or employing 8 year old children. They are professional and one is a family business. They do not have forced labor or slaves. Some quick research will tell you that in Pakistan a Factory job pays 5 times the amount as a farm job. Also if some folks had their way there would be no more kilt imports from Pakistan - then you have NO PAY instead of LOW pay.
Some folks think that if a worker is not paid what we make here in America they are being abused.
These "Cheepo Kilts" are made by folks with a lot of talent and a long history of being under British rule and having kilted troops and pipe bands stationed there for many many years and only gain their independence in 1947+-.
Don't think they woke up one morning and said "HEY LETS MAKE KILTS"
Many Pakistani's served in The British Army.

And did not the UK just award a contract to a company in Pakistan to make Kilts for the Military.

For some-only a hand made- wool kilt- made in scotland by little old scottish gentlemen in their 80's will do. But for us huddled masses dreaming of the freedom of a Kilt and a lower cost way to show our Scottish pride, thank God we can always turn to those old subjects of the crown who have decided to offer us an alternative to the costly and itchy wool kilts that are forefathers were burdened with.

So give us your poor, your huddled Scots, Those that labor hard for every dollar and have families to feed and taxes to pay, Those crying out for an affordable kilt that they can wear to the games with pride or change the oil in the cars... We shall cloth them in the brightest or tartan colors for about 20% of what they would pay for a handcrafted one from the scottish shops that are air conditioned houses of luxury.

[drobin]

Greetings Kilties!

Since the thread has swung to the fabric process: I’ve got a question. What makes a tartan “old or rare”, and where does the additional cost come into play? Case in point; I want my next Kilt done in the Dyce tartan, which will cost me more than my McDuff modern, if its the same style and from the same maker. Money is tight so I don't see that happening... switching to Plan B.

[Alan H]

Hear, Hear, Panache!

As I've said three times in this thread, so far, there is a place for the $70 kilt. Heck, there's a place for the $37.50 kilt. What prompted this thread was my observation in a couple of nearly-simultaneous threads on the board, from three separate people, of posts more-or-less accusing custom kiltmakers of charging outrageous prices. I wrote the original two posts ot illustrate the kind of labor it takes to make a kilt, what the costs were, and where those stiff prices come from. It seemed to me that we've become so accustomed to Stillwater prices and the Frugal Corner prices, that somehow we've (not ALL of us!) lost sight of what goes into hand-making a kilt. The "yardstick" developed by pricing the Frugal Corners kilts is not really applicable to judging fairness of pricing on a custom-made wool kilt.

Along the way, this discussion has turned into a really illuminating investigation into fabric sources, kiltmaking, the time requirements for kiltmaking and so on. I hope that X-markers now have an even more thorough appreciation of why a custom, hand-sewn kilt costs what it does....or why Rock's "premier" kilts, machine sewn but with care taken to hide the stitching, costs what it does.

The only step that can be done to REALLY get the idea across is for those who buy kilts to sit down and make one. Nothing teaches respect for true craftsmanship (craftswomanship!) as to try it yourself. Besides, there's nothing quite like buying the material, buying th ebook,and setting yourself down and DOING it...

And you know what? I'm wearing, right now as I type this, the very first handmade wool kilt that I ever stitched up myself. It took me 47 hours of work to make it...worth every single minute of it.

[Ozman1944]

I concur with Jaime; I'd love to own a $500.00 Kilt, but it's never going to happen on my income. So am thrilled with Stillwater, Pittsburgh, UK, USAK etc. The Kilt's the clincher.

Stan