Sgian Dubh and the Church

[Bruno]

Personally I understand the wearing of the Sgian in the Hose expresses a show of good will and intention. Traditionally this implies you are among friends and do not carry the Sgian concealed as was the tradition amongst enemies.

Therefore I would see it insulting not wearing a black knife in a visible fashion as this would imply you have it concealed and do not trust those in the Church (I don't trust that choir boy he looks up to no good lol).

[macwilkin]

Personally I understand the wearing of the Sgian in the Hose expresses a show of good will and intention. Traditionally this implies you are among friends and do not carry the Sgian concealed as was the tradition amongst enemies.

Therefore I would see it insulting not wearing a black knife in a visible fashion as this would imply you have it concealed and do not trust those in the Church (I don't trust that choir boy he looks up to no good lol).

Ever hear the story of the Red Comyn in Greyfriars?

T.

[Phil]

Personally I do not wear a sgian dubh to church. It is not an essential part of the dress and I just don't see it as appropriate in a Christian service, given the ethics involved. I don't for a moment think that anyone here in Scotland would object as it is seen as a normal part of the dress. It is just a personal thing but I can see why others from different backgrounds and upbringings would regard it as a negative thing just as we in this country look upon different attitudes towards other weapons whose sole purpose is to kill human beings.

[Kilted Carver]

I had done the same up until recently when I was nicely asked not to by a person who worked for the church as part of security. What I was told made sense to me, that in fact it was a considered a concealed weapon due to blade length. The reason for the security measures was because of the few cases in the recent past of church shootings. What he was doing was not to shun me ( as he was of Scottish descent himself) but simply to protect others in the congregation, and I totally agree. I do still carry a pocket ( swiss army ) knife in my sporran ( legal blade as well)

[JimB]

I personally wear mine to church.
Just ask yourself if you and everyone else is comfortable with it. If yes, then wear it. If not, then don't. It's clothing not a uniform. Wear it as you will, with good taste and judgement.

[herminator]

I still wear my sgian dubhs and "sgian don'ts" but now I think about not just the law but the feelings of other people.

I don't need one there, there might be those that felt it wasn't appropriate, and there might be some actually bothered by it. By not wearing the knife I show respect to others.

Too often I think people forget that it isn't always about ourselves.

Cheers

Jamie :ootd:

A true gentleman!

Thank you, sir!

:ootd:

[Bruno]

Ever hear the story of the Red Comyn in Greyfriars?

T.

Well if its good enough for the Bruce to have a weapons in a church?

[xena]

Hmmm...

A few consistent thoughts pop up in this thread. First, a Sgian Dubh is a tool rather than a weapon. Also, it is far from concealed (although I admit various legal jurisdictions may have different definitions of concealment!).

But, it may cause concern, and fear, in some folk's minds, first, because they are unfamiliar with Sgian Dubh's, and secondly, they don't seem to grasp the larger concept that a blade does not a weapon make.

So ultimately it seems to come down to a conflict between a. the freedom of the individual and b. concern for others. And this is not a simple thing to answer, because we can become paralyzed by the "most-paranoid" common denominator just as easy as we can devolve into some sort of anarchistic narcissism that cares nothing for anyone but ourselves. It's a balancing act. I'm not criticising anyone's answer BTW, I'm just thinking aloud (or is that typing aloud? or thinking atype? ...mmm... I think's that's a whole new thread).

I'm not sure it has a bearing, but I remember some of the rules we had with Highland dress in the Army. Obviously, headress' were required to be removed in churches, theatres, restaraunts, messes, and other enclosed (ie. indoor) places of civilian entertainment. Interestingly though, our belts were removed if our hats were off. The reason we were told was that Highlanders used to sharpen the metal buckles of the belt, and if need be, that could be swung in battle making a formidable improvised weapon. BTW, I have no idea if that's true history, or just a baloney story - that's just what we were told.

So, if we wore our uniform to Church, we removed both our hats and our belts. I don't know for sure about the Sgian Dubh's because in my regiment, they were reserved for Serjeants and above. Us lowly junior ranks weren't allowed to wear them. But, if my memory serves me accurately (unfortunately, it doesn't always anymore!) I think the Officers, Warrant Officers and Serjeants also removed the Sgian Dubh. But that may just be our Regimental custom, or my failing memory.

Like I said (typed?), I don't know if it really has a bearing on the discussion, but it may be food for thought.

Xena (known to the infantry types as "the Warrior Princess" because I worked behind a desk - [sarcasm] thanks guys! [/sarcasm] )

[macwilkin]

Well if its good enough for the Bruce to have a weapons in a church?

Not if you're a Comyn/Cumming (which I am!)

T.

[JRB]

Just ask yourself this, if someone at church were to approach you and ask you to not wear your kilt because it made them (and maybe others) uncomfortable would you do it? Because as sure as I'm typing this there are folks out there who wouldn't approve of you wearing a "skirt". What I'm trying to say is that you are always, always going to find someone who doesn't like what you are doing, no matter what it is. That's just the nature of people. What you have to decide is where you personally are going to draw the line at appeasing everyone. IMO, wearing a sgian dubh in your sock will have no more impact than wearing the kilt itself.