outift advice

[Jock Scot]

I had the occasion to go to our local High School to pick up two young couples from their Christmas Ball. The roads were bad due to snow and ice and as I had a 4x4 and the time their parents asked me to assist and I was delighted to help out. Any way the local School cannot be described as a school for "toffs" and there are are mixture of reasonably well off to those with extremely low incomed parents and some of those(too many) would have parents that are unemployed. So without dwelling on peoples circumstances I will get to the point.

I was delighted to note that all the young gentlemen leaving the ball were wearing a dinner jacket(tux), or appropriate Highland attire and without doubt many of the outfits were begged, borrowed, hired and I suspect, stolen!I have to say the young ladies looked beautiful and their outfits were a delight to the eye. So yes, the young here are well aware of dress codes(to a point) at a young age and thank goodness a black tie event is not regarded as a "toffs do", but more a case of doing justice to the occasion, themselves and their young lady.

[AKScott]

OP, I generally find MoR and Jock to know what they are talking about.

It is, in my experience, rare to find a situation where both suggest attire other than the kilt.

I have been to Europe once, I do own a tuxedo; once in my life I want to hear Beethoven played in Vienna. Apparently a dark suit will be a good choice for me.

I encourage you to go with a tuxedo for the party.

n00b AKScott

[Mark Stephenson]

I am relatively new to this forum. I just have to say how impressed I am with this forum. It is so refreshing to see there can be open discussion on a topic with divergent opinions all focused on a constructive exchange of ideas.

[Biathlonman]

Go as all out formal as you can - the Viennese are conservative and traditional.

There aren't many white tie functions in North America these days but there it is still alive and well.

Here's your chance to let them see what Highland Formal can be, because doubtless it's rarely seen. The two excellent threads showing escalating degrees of formality in highland wear should guide you.

I was the only kilted attendee at a Swiss formal function a few months ago and it attracted lots of appreciative comment. I expect you'll create a minor sensation, in the best of ways.

And yes - Murray would be my choice.

[joeydknecht]

i am just rereading some comments, and wow am very shocked at some snobby comments,...as for that i will not stay in this group any more as it does seem anti american even tho do have scottish lineage( which isnt good enough)...didnt realize there was a law. USA is made up a different cultures weather its german irish or whatever... so from what i gather for being a american with scottish roots dosnt allow me to wear a kilt, and that is what some of you are exactly saying....guess unless you live in america you woudlnt understand as american- italains , american - irish always have that sense of pride from where their family came from..... i dont wear a kilt to pretend to be anything. my mom happens to be a murray which i think justifies me to wear the kilt. and as my dad is mohawk indian well thats another pride i have. i dont get upset when people wear native american jewelery or what have you. i am honored that they chose to wear such an item or have knowledge about something that is of my people. maybe you guys who have such strict opinions and they are yer opinions need to get off the high horses...after all this is my opinion.... and yes i think the tartan is more suited for such an event.....

[joeydknecht]

oh and thanx to all who gave positve yet critical comments those were most welcomed

[EagleJCS]

Joey, this is just my opinion, but I don't think the intent of some of the posts was to discourage your kilt-wearing in general, just in the instance of the UN function and/or the Viennese Opera. I've never been there myself, but from all I've read (here and elsewhere), I get the sense that Vienna is a really (proudly) conservative city, and some expressions of individuality - particularly in men's clothing - are frowned upon at particular social events.

I'm also a proud Scots-Irish-German-plus-a-couple-of-other-ethnicities American mutt. Unless I were officially representing a Scottish-American organization of some sort (a St. Andrews Society or similar), or playing my pipes for some reason, I wouldn't wear my kilt to a formal UN function - but then, I've never been invited to a white-tie affair either, so I haven't had to worry about it.

For an analogy, I'm quite proud of being an active Scout leader and Eagle Scout, but I wouldn't wear my Scout uniform to a formal event unless I were representing my unit or the local council and was requested/instructed and permitted to do so. Neither would I wear my Eagle medal on a suit or tuxedo, unless requested/instructed/permitted (usually that's reserved for Eagle award ceremonies).

By-the-by, it's only been in the last couple of generations that Irish-Americans really started celebrating their heritage, except in the larger cities. It wasn't that long ago that many Irish-Americans couldn't get a decent job, have access to decent healthcare and/or education, etc. While I was growing up (I was born in the late 1960's), my grandfather still downplayed the fact that his mother (my great-grandmother) was born in Ireland, even though she died in 1953. I didn't know it until after he died when I was a teen.

I hope you'll reconsider and at least check in on the forum from time to time.

[joeydknecht]

so ok, if man and a woman both scot nationals had a child , and the child was born on foriegn soil say japan, he is technically japanese. so since he was not born on scottish soil he is not allowed to wear his kilt but he can wear a hakama and komono of some sort?...... so i guess since my dad is native american i should wear a feather war bonnet and beads and ignore my moms blood line completly.
or go in a cowboy hat and bolo?
im goign to vienna to experience its culture good and bad....i will never see these people again...im going there to have a good time.....if someone wants to bad mouth me so be it ,i do not want their company anyways, im sure i have been called worse in the prison i work in by ignorant people... im not gogin there to represent any country but im going as a human being wanting to experience vienna for what its known for, if thast wrong then shoot me, from the posts ive read on here and not just my own thread, the amount of snobbery and anti american comments is awful... to sign up for this site it shoudl ask if your a scots national and if not you cant be a member.....as thats what it seems to me that you are not welcome here.....anyways enough of my whinging....so much heartbreak about wearing a kilt,

[artificer]

joey,
I feel you're taking all of this faaaaaaaaaaaaar too personally. You asked for input and received it.

Nobody was mean-spirited in what they said. Some simply said something you didn't want to hear (ie, you're not a native Scot, so wearing Highland kit to a UN function might be deemed inappropriate).

If there is a curse to X-Marks, it's that, if you ask for advice, you're bound to receive it.

Please don't take these things personally, I don't think any of the proffered advice was intended to wound. After all, it's always better to hear it from your mates than a stranger- your mates'll always tell you the truth, good, bad or ugly.

ith:

edit: as an aside, I think you'll find the comments about the rather shoddy standards of American dress were tendered ENTIRELY by the Americans of the board (who make up a fair percentage of the membership).

[Jordan]

so ok, if man and a woman both scot nationals had a child , and the child was born on foriegn soil say japan, he is technically japanese. so since he was not born on scottish soil he is not allowed to wear his kilt but he can wear a hakama and komono of some sort?...... so i guess since my dad is native american i should wear a feather war bonnet and beads and ignore my moms blood line completly.

Joey to use your example here, and your situation as mentioned above the sone here even though he was born on japanese soil (or anywhere else) it would be understandable for him to wear a kilt if invited to an event by the UN however if one of his great grandparents was Scottish and none of his family since had a direct link to Scotland 99% of the population are going to think its strange for this japanese person to turn up to a UN White tie event in a kilt.

You said your mum was a Murray, was she born over here?