Confederate Memorial

[kiltedfarmer]

.....There are no good guys in war.

I beg to differ. What is not good and righteous about defending your homeland and way of life, unless of course that way of life is known to not be good and righteous? And by what authority are we granted the right to pass judgment on a previous society based on today's morals? Sure, slavery is a reprehensible practice by today's standards and I am not defending it, but there are other aspects of the southern lifestyle that were good, and most of the folks that fought for the CSA did not own slaves and thus embodied those elements.

As a Virginian, and a Scotsman I also embody the love of personal freedom for which the majority in the CSA fought and died. Sadly there are too many in our society that have lost that vision and are willing to accept encroaching government control in increasing areas of our lives. I am not. I only pray that there are enough of us left to carry that vision going forward, regardless of the level of dominance of current thought.

[OC Richard]

Not that the 79th wore that tunic the entire war, not at all, but just that they went to war in 1861 wearing it. It was the only tunic they had at the start, and was worn by the first four companies in Full Dress and by all the companies in Service Dress.

There are photographs of members of the 79th taken prisoner at First Bull Run (First Manassas) showing them wearing the 79th tunic. It's hard to tell whether their trousers are tartan or plain.

There's an engraving showing 79th wounded from First Bull Run in hospital. One is clearly wearing tartan trousers.

An engraving showing the aftermath of the 79th's notorious mutiny in August 1861 clearly shows tartan trousers and kepis being worn. It's hard to tell what the jackets are supposed to be like.

An 1862 painting of 79th wounded shows the 79th tunic being worn with plain trousers, apparently both sky blue and dark blue.

All of these illustrations show only kepis being worn- no glengarries at all.

Seems that as the war progressed, as the original tunics wore out and new men joined, the ordinary Union sack coats took over.

The tartan trousers bit the dust too. William Todd, in his The Seventy-Ninth Highlanders, New York Volunteers, in the War of the Rebellion 1861-1865 says that when the 79th were serving on the South Carolina coast, and took possesion of Fort Beaufort in December 1861, they found abandonded supplies including "light summer clothing" and many replaced "our heavy uniform jackets and woolen pantaloons... for the lighter clothing... left behind by the enemy". Evidently these lightweight white or offwhite cotton trousers became something of a badge of service to members of the 79th.

By mid-war it seems that the 79th was pretty much indistinguishable from any other Union regiment.

[macwilkin]

Not that the 79th wore that tunic the entire war, not at all, but just that they went to war in 1861 wearing it. It was the only tunic they had at the start, and was worn by the first four companies in Full Dress and by all the companies in Service Dress.

There are photographs of members of the 79th taken prisoner at First Bull Run (First Manassas) showing them wearing the 79th tunic. It's hard to tell whether their trousers are tartan or plain.

There's an engraving showing 79th wounded from First Bull Run in hospital. One is clearly wearing tartan trousers.

An engraving showing the aftermath of the 79th's notorious mutiny in August 1861 clearly shows tartan trousers and kepis being worn. It's hard to tell what the jackets are supposed to be like.

An 1862 painting of 79th wounded shows the 79th tunic being worn with plain trousers, apparently both sky blue and dark blue.

All of these illustrations show only kepis being worn- no glengarries at all.

Seems that as the war progressed, as the original tunics wore out and new men joined, the ordinary Union sack coats took over.

The tartan trousers bit the dust too. William Todd, in his The Seventy-Ninth Highlanders, New York Volunteers, in the War of the Rebellion 1861-1865 says that when the 79th were serving on the South Carolina coast, and took possesion of Fort Beaufort in December 1861, they found abandonded supplies including "light summer clothing" and many replaced "our heavy uniform jackets and woolen pantaloons... for the lighter clothing... left behind by the enemy". Evidently these lightweight white or offwhite cotton trousers became something of a badge of service to members of the 79th.

By mid-war it seems that the 79th was pretty much indistinguishable from any other Union regiment.

Thanks for the clarification; your last post seemed to imply that they did wear their distinctive tunics throughout the war, which obviously wasn't the case. I know Todd makes reference to the 79th wearing "ordinary Federal" uniforms at Bull Run.

T.

[OC Richard]

I know Todd makes reference to the 79th wearing "ordinary Federal" uniforms at Bull Run.

T.

Interesting... at least if he's talking about First Bull Run, because photos of 79th men taken as prisoners at First Bull Run clearly show the dress tunics.

[cavscout]

this tartan represents something completely different to other Americans. there is nothing wrong with celebrating and honoring those that fell in that conflict, but wearing a tartan that uses the colors of the confederacy will stand to remind some of what THEIR ancestors had to endure under the people and government that used them.

I don't want to sound like a bleeding heart ACLU liberal, because those that know me well will tell you that i'm anything but that.....But I personally do not believe in hurting my fellow countryman's feelings in this day and age. And while I'm a true southerner through and through, I am surely ashamed of what its culture propagated. That one aspect of Southern culture was defended by the Confederacy, and thats the truth. I want to wear tartans that i can celebrate my association with that EVERYONE will enjoy seeing and hearing the story or history about. I want to encourage others to love the kilt for the same reason I love it. I don't want to alienate or set the idea that guys who wear kilts are racist. Do you think this guy would like it?

FYI, the gentleman in the photo is a member here from early on.

I'll keep this brief so as not to go too far off topic but I feel the need to respond to the implications of this post.

Josh, I understand you are only voicing your opinion but I don't think you can drop that sort of statement in a thread and not expect a rebuttal from others. Given your logic, should a Union Memorial Tartan not be worn? Should the Blackwatch Tartan not be worn? Of course the answer is no.

The causes and reasons for the US Civil War were complicated and many, contrary to what PC history books teach today. To reduce it down to only slavery is insulting.

[NorCalPiper]

I agree with you that my statement would raise rebuttal. I voiced my opinion as to what I fell is the truth. African-Americans (Except those who re-enact......) will feel uncomfortable about someone wearing such a tartan. TRUST ME GUYS-I understand that there are many variables to the conflict from us "White-Guys" point of view, but for African-Americans, anything relative to the Confederacy is an insult. If you think otherwise, you're being delusional. Just remember that post civil-war, Confederate symbology was used intensively (Certain groups using battle flags at their "Gatherings", States adopting this symbol for State flags, etc.)

I personally do not want to insult my American brothers and sisters (Again, no Afro-Centrtric pun intended) with a tartan that would make them feel I was a hill-billy racist, nor do I want them to think that kilt wearers some how have a connection to this philosophy. You guys who feel its not a big deal, thats fine. Again-JUST MY OPINION.

[cavscout]

It is the neglect in defending those Confederate symbols that should not be repeated with the Memorial Tartan. The true significance of the CS Battle Flag was allowed to be corrupted by supremacist groups because no one stood up to prevent it. I'm not interested in allowing ANYONE to do the same with the rest of my heritage and it's symbols. If someone wants to stick their heritage in a closet and be ashamed of it, that's their choice. But I'll not have someone incorrectly re-define mine to suit a politically correct version of history. As I said, to boil down the US Civil War to simply slavery is an insult. If that is the sole reason someone takes offense to everything about the CSA they need a better education.

[soopamanluva206]

I own this kilt. I'm Asian and also not from the South. I like this tartan because it is unique. People I think too deeply about the negative and traditional things rather than we only have this time in life to experience things. That being said I wear it in pride for the fallen human beings who fought in the war not everyone is all good nor all bad no matter where we hail from. Peace

[BoldHighlander]

I agree with you that my statement would raise rebuttal. I voiced my opinion as to what I fell is the truth. African-Americans (Except those who re-enact......) will feel uncomfortable about someone wearing such a tartan.....

I personally do not want to insult my American brothers and sisters (Again, no Afro-Centrtric pun intended) with a tartan that would make them feel I was a hill-billy racist, nor do I want them to think that kilt wearers some how have a connection to this philosophy. You guys who feel its not a big deal, thats fine. Again-JUST MY OPINION.

Let's all get real for a moment.
Just how many African-American, or anyone else for that matter, would know what tartan it was just by looking at it? I mean seriously!

Most people cannot recognize common clan tartans without a scorecard (& I'm not just talking about non-kilt wearers either!).

So let's all just move on....

[GDub]

Enjoy!