Kilted Golfer DENIED Play at Royal Troon because of the kilt

[ForresterModern]

Several issues to respond to, so one at a time:

First, Rover, I am not holding my breath, but also not going to sit by and let time pass, as passivity is a mark of accession to the3 existing rule. I will push this until I either recieve a full and sincere apology or a statement of fact and standards from the club to the contrary of my dress. In the absence of the former I will progress unlong the lines of utilizing those resources availabile to me to avail my position and situation to the public, because;

Althought these clubs (Troon and Muirfield in particular) do function along the "old boys" network rules (going even so far as to allow women to play only on certain days and to only allow women to enter certain portions of the club (I do NOT mean the mens locker room), the secretary does have the power to respond to a complaint promptly (even if only to state that the issue will be discussed at the next general membership meeting-----afterall the caddiemaster was able to make an independent decision without oversight), if he/she is present at the time, and if not then as previously stated I will avail myself to the mails and then the media. Eventually there will be a response to one of the avenues in some fashion or other. Or possibly not---maybe I am just a fly on the horse's **** that will be shoed away by a flick of the tail. We shall see.

It is not a matter of what the members of the club play in, it is a matter of what the members of the club have specifically restricted both members and guests to play in or more specifically to NOT play in (I wonder what their ruling might be to some of african heritage wishing to play in a dashiki, or a hindu wishing to play in homespun loincloth (would they honestly have kept Ghandi off the course?), and the kilt is in no way excluded by the published rules.

Lastly, in order to have a "private" club qualify to be used as a venue for the British Open (or just "the Open" as described here in the UK), they must open their doors to a certain number of public guests per year, hence one of the reasons that they allow tourists like myself to play there for a significant fee. The other reason is that our fees go a long way to supporting the financial well-being of the club itself, and the lack of tourists playing and paying would not only limit the overall financial status of the club but also risk their standing as a course on the "Open" rota, the rotation of courses that can be eligible to hold the "Open". So they have plenty of reason to be nice to guests and accommodating wherever possible.

As stated before, probably the snootiest of all Scots private golf clubs that have a world class course that is in the rota is generally accepted to be Muirfield, but they welcomed me with open arms, even asking to take pictures with me kilted on their course. And when I discussed my event with several members of the general membership at Troon immediately after completing my "trousered" round at Troon none of them had any issue with my playing in a kilt, and several commended me for honoring my (albeit 13 generations removed) distant scottish heritage by doing so, all saying that they could NOT imagine their club denying me play for simply being kilted. No they do not generally play kilted themselves, but at least one stated that he was now considering doing so himself after our discussion.

Other than the denial of playing in the kilt, and the rather brusk and almost insolent attitude to which I was subjected when I inquired with the caddiemaster after the round was completed, I feel it is mofre than reasonable to address this issue with the club management to its fullest extent, and if the "no kilt" policy is indeed their position, then the world needs to know about it, more than just them changing their posted rules of acceptable golfing attire.

And last to cousin Canuck, if this is the standard of "Scotland" that an American or other non-scots guest can honestly expect, it has not been repeated at similar facilities such as Turnberry, Muirfield, Carnoustie, St Andrews (both new and old courses, as well as the private Dukes course). Last round at Kingsbarns tomorrow and I have been told to NOT expect any issues with the kilt there. Must have been 50 people standing around the 18th fairway and green today when we were coming in taking pictures, and I am sure many of them snapped at least one of me playing kilted.

Home on Sunday.

This is by no means over. Keep your eyes on this page.

Thanks for all your input, pro and con. I value all opinions, but still live my life by what seem to be reasonable and realistic and important principles, by which I will stand until I am proven wrong or learn otherwise.

Jeff

[Santa Wally]

The PGA Championship was on CBS today Aug 15. One of the commercials was for the FedEx Global Golf Sweepstakes showing 4 kilted golfers leaving a golf cart and running down the highway with their golf clubs. Royal Troon could take a hint !!!

[Bugbear]

I just want to know if Mahatma Gandhi really did play golf in a loin cloth, as brought up thirty nine pages back.

[AstroBen]

I just want to know if Mahatma Gandhi really did play golf in a loin cloth, as brought up thirty nine pages back.

I've never known Ghandi to wear a loincloth. Perhaps you are thinking of the long wrap called the dhoti? But it's hard to confuse the two.

[Bugbear]

I've never known Ghandi to wear a loincloth. Perhaps you are thinking of the long wrap called the dhoti? But it's hard to confuse the two.

Sorry, I was using the genaric term.

From the Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, CD-Rom Version 3.0 (Random House Reference, 1999).

dhoti:

...
1. a long loincloth worn by many Hindu men in India.
2. the cotton fabric, sometimes patterned, of which the loincloth is made. ...

... It is not a matter of what the members of the club play in, it is a matter of what the members of the club have specifically restricted both members and guests to play in or more specifically to NOT play in (I wonder what their ruling might be to some of african heritage wishing to play in a dashiki, or a hindu wishing to play in homespun loincloth (would they honestly have kept Ghandi off the course?), and the kilt is in no way excluded by the published rules. ...

I couldn't find anything suggesting Mahatma Gandhi did play golf, and also thought it was an interesting mental image being created.

[ForresterModern]

This morning in my email I received the following response from the club secretary at Royal Troon regarding my previous email complaint:

Dear Dr Foster



Thank you for your e-mail regarding your visit to Royal Troon. I regret that you felt aggrieved by being asked to change from your kilt into trousers to play golf. Royal Troon wants guests to have an enjoyable experience when they visit us and indeed we have a large volume of correspondence thanking us for our hospitality.



In keeping with many organisations in golf, including most amateur and professional organisations who stage major championships around the world, long trousers are the accepted form of dress on the golf course. Royal Troon adopts a similar approach.



We greatly respect, however, the traditional dress of Scotland and welcome full ceremonial kilt attire being worn within the Clubhouse.



I hope that you will reconsider your view and visit Troon in the future.



Regards



David



D L K Brown
Secretary
Royal Troon Golf Club
Troon
Ayrshire
KA10 6EP
Tel No: 01292 311555
Fax No: 01292 318204


To which I responded promptly but after much thought:

Mr Brown (David),


Thank you for your response to my concerns with regards the treatment of the kilt as being considered innappropriate attire for golf at your club. From your response below I am gathering that the kilt may be worn within the clubhouse for ceremonial events, but is still specifically NOT allowed for play on the course under any conditions. If my interpretation of your statements is incorrect, I would welcome clarification of my potentially mistaken impression.



If however that interpretation is correct, that kilts are specifically NOT approved wear for golf on your club course, then I will follow my previous decision to file a formal grievance with the club membership and rules committee for a formal review of that policy, as well as other avenues of action in notifying other potential kilt wearing golfers the world over of that policy so that this incident will not be repeated again. I will also be in contact with the PGA of America and the Royal and Ancient and other governing bodies regarding their dress policies, if any, regarding the wearing of the kilt as attire for golf play in official events, to verify your below claims. I also find it interesting to inform you that of the 8 rounds of golf I played at traditional Scottish golf courses last week, including such prestigious venues such as Turnberry, Muirfield, Carnoustie, St Andrews Old and New Courses, St Andrews Dukes, and Kingsbarns courses, all were played kilted by me save the one at your club because of your restrictions. Many clubs indeed welcomed the wear of the traditional scottish kilt, and thought it more than appropriate, seeing as Scotland is the birthplace of the game of golf and the home of its original set of rules governing play.



The only chance I will ever attend any event at your Royal Troon Golf Club will be wearing a traditional tartan kilt in traditional and wholly appropriate golf attire, with the expectation that I will be allowed to play a round of golf dressed as such, with the specific approval and welcoming open arms of your administration and club membership in such endeavor.. Short of that I will never darken your doorstep with my presence again.



Again, I thank you for your cordial and clear response, although remain disappointed with it. I hope that Royal Troon Golf Club administration and membership will again reconsider its position regarding the propriety of the traditional scottish kilt as wear for a round of golf on you club's course.



Cordially,



Jeffrey L Foster, MD




We shall see what further research into the rules of golf in both professional and amateur societies here and abroad have to say about dress codes, and kilts specifically if at all, and be back with you soon. Next stop is the formal media, once all my research is completed, all "i's" dotted and all "t's" crossed, so to speak.

I must also write thank you notes to each of the courses I played in appreciation of their allowing to play kilted, despite any potential conflicts with their formal rules of attire.

We are not finnished yet.

Jeff

[Jock Scot]

Being mischievous of mind and with absolutely no knowledge of golfing rules. Would plus 4's (traditional golfing attire I believe) worn on a golf course(Royal Troon for example),by a male,but without hose, be regarded as "long trousers" or, a variation of those "long short things" that are seen about these days?One could argue that they are shorter long trousers,I suppose?

Get stuck in Jeff!!!!

[seanachie]

Jeff:
I don't know you're thoughts.....but the secretary had a perfect opportunity in his email to say "hey we screwed up and I am sorry" and he did not. I find that disappointing. I have had situations occur and as aggrieved and PO'd as I might have been someone admiting that they screwed up and apologizing went a long ways. Part of it being that I have made my share of mistakes as well. But hiding behind rules, management policies or very arbitrary decision making just irritates the heck out of me. In this instance the secretary had an opportunity at redemption and blew it in a big way. Also I do hope you follow up on the actions you said you were going to take. That would be sweet to make a nice stack of correspondence and refute him. As to the earlier comments about the caddie just following the rules, and just doing his job I was laughing yesterday after perusing the news. There are a few other folks who have made the same claim, and they are on trial at the Hague right now. (Note: I am not directly comparing the 2 or diminishing the criminal acts they commited, just pointing out that that defense is often ludicrous)

[MacMillans son]

Jeff,

I understand their refusing to allow the wearing of the kilt must have been a real head spinning moment, but it just further supports the reality that the kilt is not commonly worn attire in Scotland. Native Scots wanting to have a picture take with you further supports that.

It seems their response is wholly consistent with what our native Xmarks members have told us. The wearing of the kilt is not much more common in Scotland than it is in the U.S. and is typically relegated to, as the club indicated in their response, “ceremonial” attire (worn to, and for, special ceremonies only). I read that portion of their response to mean they would not allow the wearing of casual kilt attire in the club house either. Apparently, the kilt is not inherently appropriate attire in all areas and venues of Scotland. That, I am sure, is not news to native Scots.

I am missing what it is that is fueling the outrage over the fact that they have a dress code, and the kilt is not included as acceptable attire, other than the romantic belief that it should be. As you know, most courses in the U.S. have some sort of dress code. I would expect the same response from a U.S. course if a Scot came over and attempted to play in Levi’s at a course that deemed them inappropriate course attire, after all Levi’s are an original American garment. The course response, I assume, would be similar to the one you received ,“ We appreciate Levi’s, and agree they have their place as original American attire, but do not consider them appropriate attire on our course”. End of story.

It’s your sanity friend, but I would consider letting the matter drop. I am confident that you will receive no real satisfaction if your goal is to have a private club change it’s rules based on a romantic American notion that kilts should be inherently acceptable attire in all areas of Scotland.

Respectfully,

Brooke

[artificer]

It’s your sanity friend, but I would consider letting the matter drop. I am confident that you will receive no real satisfaction if your goal is to have a private club change it’s rules based on a romantic American notion that kilts should be inherently acceptable attire in all areas of Scotland.

Respectfully,

Brooke

I think part of the issue is that the kilt ISN'T specifically barred.

Jeff,
the reply sounds a lot like a very polite "thanks for the email, get stuffed" to me.

Give 'em hell ith: