Dress codes and changing trends

[Calgacus]

There have been a few very interesting threads posted lately discussing various aspects of Highland dress and when it is appropriate to wear it. Now, I know one should not attempt to draw direct parallels with Saxon dress codes, but please forgive me if I do something akin to that in an effort to help pin all this down. For reference, the recent threads that have drawn my attention are:-

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...r-doing-82339/

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...-argyll-82157/

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...porrans-81994/

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...e-scots-82482/

http://www.highlandclans.co.uk/Argyl...lt_Jacket.html

When I try to assimilate all the information from these threads, I come up with the following set of dress codes (give or take a wee bit):-

White tie equivalent:
Doublet, jabot & cuffs
Tartan or diced hose
Buckled brogues
Worn at state occasions and some pretty fancy balls

Black tie equivalent:
Prince Charlie coatee
Tartan, diced or coloured hose
Buckled, ghillie, or fine oxfords/brogues
Worn to the opera, dinners & parties where black tie is stipulated

Morning dress equivalent:
Black silver buttoned Argyll
Coloured hose
Black brogues
Worn to daytime weddings & the races

Lounge suit equivalent:
Tweed Argyll
Coloured hose
Brogues
Worn to weddings, funerals, evening events where black tie not stipulated

Day wear, "oot 'n' aboot":
Tweed Argyll or pullover, Barbour etc.
Worn at all other times

Now the first question is "Have I got that about right?", given that I have glossed over any finer points in the interests of brevity.

Assuming I have, it occurs to me that kilt wearers, on this forum and elsewhere, appear to be bucking the current trend for more and more casual dress and are if anything dressing at a higher level than dress codes strictly call for. I see doublets in photos non white tie events, I see PCs worn here there and everywhere even though black tie invites are rare these days. I see PCs and black barathea Argylls worn to events which are technically 'lounge suit' events, I see tweed Argylls at Highland Games and recitals when the Saxons are wearing something rather less than a suit, and I see photos of the occasional (often extremely beautiful) hair sporran worn with daywear.

Now some further questions. Am I correct, or just seeing selectively?
Is this the peacock in us trying to get out?
Are we sub-consciously rebelling against the current slide into pyjamas and onesies for all occasions?
Is it 'wrong' to deviate from the accepted codes in this way?
Is this a trend that will stick and eventually alter the accepted norms?
Is this a good thing?
Is it worthwhile having a dress codes 'sticky'?
Am I talking out of my hoop?

[Phil]

There is always a great deal of agonising in this forum about dress codes. The only thing I would say is that a Prince Charlie is evening wear although this doesn't seem to prevent many wearing it to daytime weddings. Probably mainly because they will be hired and worn in ignorance. Not sure about this "white tie" equivalent thing with doublet and jabot though.

[Father Bill]

From the wee bit I know, I think you've made a darned good stab at it, and certainly you've re-routed and opened a useful conversation. In some ways, this is what much of XMarks is really all about.

Guid an ye!

[Pleater]

My first thought was a dreadful, child eating sporran - but that would be Moloch, or Molech

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[MacRobert's Reply]

Big hairy beastie: a hair sporran, usually goat or horse hair, much worn by the victorians and by many pipers to this day.

[Nathan]

My first thought was a dreadful, child eating sporran - but that would be Moloch, or Molech

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

Indeed, of course if we're going to mix our Gaelic with our Biblical Hebrew, we'd be remiss if we didn't acknowledge that although to wear a "sporran molech" would be a beastly sacrifice, to say the least; a "sporran melech" would be fit for a king and a "sporran malach" would be downright angelic.

[Nathan]

There have been a few very interesting threads posted lately discussing various aspects of Highland dress and when it is appropriate to wear it. Now, I know one should not attempt to draw direct parallels with Saxon dress codes, but please forgive me if I do something akin to that in an effort to help pin all this down. For reference, the recent threads that have drawn my attention are:-

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...r-doing-82339/

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...-argyll-82157/

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...porrans-81994/

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...e-scots-82482/

http://www.highlandclans.co.uk/Argyl...lt_Jacket.html

When I try to assimilate all the information from these threads, I come up with the following set of dress codes (give or take a wee bit):-

White tie equivalent:
Doublet, jabot & cuffs
Tartan or diced hose
Buckled brogues
Worn at state occasions and some pretty fancy balls

Black tie equivalent:
Prince Charlie coatee
Tartan, diced or coloured hose
Buckled, ghillie, or fine oxfords/brogues
Worn to the opera, dinners & parties where black tie is stipulated

Morning dress equivalent:
Black silver buttoned Argyll
Coloured hose
Black brogues
Worn to daytime weddings & the races

Lounge suit equivalent:
Tweed Argyll
Coloured hose
Brogues
Worn to weddings, funerals, evening events where black tie not stipulated

Day wear, "oot 'n' aboot":
Tweed Argyll or pullover, Barbour etc.
Worn at all other times

Now the first question is "Have I got that about right?", given that I have glossed over any finer points in the interests of brevity.

Assuming I have, it occurs to me that kilt wearers, on this forum and elsewhere, appear to be bucking the current trend for more and more casual dress and are if anything dressing at a higher level than dress codes strictly call for. I see doublets in photos non white tie events, I see PCs worn here there and everywhere even though black tie invites are rare these days. I see PCs and black barathea Argylls worn to events which are technically 'lounge suit' events, I see tweed Argylls at Highland Games and recitals when the Saxons are wearing something rather less than a suit, and I see photos of the occasional (often extremely beautiful) hair sporran worn with daywear.

Now some further questions. Am I correct, or just seeing selectively?
Is this the peacock in us trying to get out?
Are we sub-consciously rebelling against the current slide into pyjamas and onesies for all occasions?
Is it 'wrong' to deviate from the accepted codes in this way?
Is this a trend that will stick and eventually alter the accepted norms?
Is this a good thing?
Is it worthwhile having a dress codes 'sticky'?
Am I talking out of my hoop?

I don't think you've got it wrong , per se, but I think you're a touch narrow. This is my understanding:

White tie equivalent:
Doublet, jabot & cuffs (or black bow tie with Highland attire)
(I think Orionson ably demonstrated that a properly worn coatee with white waistcoat and white bowtie can also work for white tie but there may be some debate about this).
Tartan or diced hose
ornate fur sporran with white metal cantle (or sporran molach)
Buckled brogues (or patent leather court shoes or dancing pumps)
Black silver mounted evening sgian dubh
Worn at state occasions and some pretty fancy balls


Black tie equivalent:
Prince Charlie coatee (or doublet - especially without jabot and cuffs such as a Regulation doublet - most formal. Black dress Argyll with three button waistcoat and black bow tie -least formal )
Tartan, diced or coloured hose (avoid lovat or earthy muted coloured hose)
Buckled, ghillie, or fine oxfords/brogues
fur sporran with ornate metal cantle (some wear a sporran molach)
Black silver mounted evening sgian dubh
Worn to the opera, dinners & parties where black tie is stipulated

Morning dress equivalent:
Black silver buttoned Argyll with five button waistcoat and long tie.
l prefer a plain black leather sporran but kilt outfitters maintain (much to Jock's shegrin) that rather than the rubbish bin, this is the place for the semi-dress sporran.
Coloured hose
Black brogues

Worn to daytime weddings & the races

Lounge suit equivalent:
Tweed Argyll
Coloured hose
simple leather flap or hunting sporran
Brogues
less ornate sgian dubh perhaps stag handled or wood with less silver, jewels etc...)
Worn to weddings, funerals, evening events where black tie not stipulated

Day wear, "oot 'n' aboot":
Tweed Argyll or pullover, Barbour etc.
Coloured hose
Worn at all other times

[Calgacus]

I don't disagree with your amendments, Nathan, my narrowness came from brevity.

*Edit* Actually, maybe I do.
Is it really correct to wear a BBSBA to a black tie affair?
Is it really correct to wear a BBSBA to an office dinner dance (usually 'lounge suit' affairs)?

[Spartan Tartan]

A very interesting thread... I will be watching this one with great interest.

[ASinclair]

A very interesting thread... I will be watching this one with great interest.

I'm very interested in this, as well.