Enough tartan to kilt a king

[Troglodyte]

Picture the scene: you've stumped-up the cash, trotted off to the kiltmakers, and ordered yourself a new kilt.

And you think you've pushed the boat out by opting for a five-yard job instead of a feeble four yard garment.

But wait. Now's your chance to be properly lavish, and go for the full nine yards - or is that too much..?

Oh lads..! No! Not by a long chalk.

For George IV's visit to the old kilt country in 1822, the royal outfitter's records show they supplied The King with a costume consisting of 61 yards of 'Royal Sattin Plaid', 31 yards of 'Royal Plaid Velvet' and 17 1/2 yards of 'Royal Plaid Casemere'. Cripes!

Now, we know George IV had a hearty appetite and had a figure that showed it, but more than 100 yards of material for one costume suggests the less-is-more approach might have been more seemly.

Or maybe not. I would love to have seen The King clad in such an abundance of finery, but my guess is that, unless the material was like ribbon that got sewn together, he must have have other garments made from the bulk of cloth, or shared it out amongst his friends and family.

On the other hand, how many pleats would the kingly kilt need to have to use up 61 yards of cloth..?

[Jock Scot]

No, you have it all wrong Trog.. He needed those extra few yards to replace the curtains in the Tower of London. If you don't believe me, ask the ravens!

[CBH]

That is funny.

I still don't understand the arithmetic behind kilt material yardage, but I recently got my first 8 yard kilt. And is it HEAVY. My other wool kilt, from USAKilts, is a 5 yarder, and it is noticeably lighter. It still looks great, with ample and sharp pleats.

The 8 yard also looks great. But it is so heavy as to be cumbersome. I also noticed the cloth is, obviously, heavy and stiff. Which is generally good. But it also causes the aprons to lie straight when sitting down, rather than draping down into the cavern that is your lap. This can be..........unsettling to say the least.

Any similar experiences or advice ?

[Troglodyte]

No, you have it all wrong Trog.. He needed those extra few yards to replace the curtains in the Tower of London. If you don't believe me, ask the ravens!

Well, that explaines it...

There are quite a few windows at The Tower, I believe...

[Troglodyte]

That is funny.

I still don't understand the arithmetic behind kilt material yardage, but I recently got my first 8 yard kilt. And is it HEAVY. My other wool kilt, from USAKilts, is a 5 yarder, and it is noticeably lighter. It still looks great, with ample and sharp pleats.

The 8 yard also looks great. But it is so heavy as to be cumbersome. I also noticed the cloth is, obviously, heavy and stiff. Which is generally good. But it also causes the aprons to lie straight when sitting down, rather than draping down into the cavern that is your lap. This can be..........unsettling to say the least.

Any similar experiences or advice ?

Finishing or dressing of the cloth, and the tightness of the weave, will have an initial 'stiffening' effect but regular use will soon have the kilt draping nicely.

If the new kilt is resisting forming to your shape, put it on tight and run a garment steamer over it, or wear it in a humid steamy atmosphere for a while. This will allow the fibres of the wool and lining materials to relax, flex and meld to your body's shape. You will notice practically nothing different in apearance, but the difference in comfort will be remarkable.

As for weight and the eight yard kilt being heavy, remember it has a considerably more cloth (about 60 per cent) than the five yard. But for properly heavy kilts, you should try one of the old regimental kilts made in 18oz cloth - they are almost tough enough to stand up on their own!

[figheadair]

I suspect that the satin, velvet and cashmere were for other items to be worn/used in connection with the royal visit rather than GIV's actual clothes.

It is known that the clothes and accoutrements were supplied by George Hunter of Prince's Street, His Majesty's clothier and mercer at a cost of £1,354.18s, including the royal Stewart tartan for the jacket, shoulder plaid and kilt, a baldrick, a pair of Highland pistols, a Highland dirk, purse, and powder-horn.

A kilt of the period was typically 4 yards and even allowing for his girth, I doubt that more that 6 yards was used. The jacket from the outfit survives but alas, not the kilt so far as I know.

[Troglodyte]

I suspect that the satin, velvet and cashmere were for other items to be worn/used in connection with the royal visit rather than GIV's actual clothes.

It is known that the clothes and accoutrements were supplied by George Hunter of Prince's Street, His Majesty's clothier and mercer at a cost of £1,354.18s, including the royal Stewart tartan for the jacket, shoulder plaid and kilt, a baldrick, a pair of Highland pistols, a Highland dirk, purse, and powder-horn.

A kilt of the period was typically 4 yards and even allowing for his girth, I doubt that more that 6 yards was used. The jacket from the outfit survives but alas, not the kilt so far as I know.

It's just a Jock said, then..!

[Pleater]

That is funny.

I still don't understand the arithmetic behind kilt material yardage, but I recently got my first 8 yard kilt. And is it HEAVY. My other wool kilt, from USAKilts, is a 5 yarder, and it is noticeably lighter. It still looks great, with ample and sharp pleats.

The 8 yard also looks great. But it is so heavy as to be cumbersome. I also noticed the cloth is, obviously, heavy and stiff. Which is generally good. But it also causes the aprons to lie straight when sitting down, rather than draping down into the cavern that is your lap. This can be..........unsettling to say the least.

Any similar experiences or advice ?

For my morris kit with Anonymous morris, which is a Border side, I needed black kit - they supplied the tatter jacket, I had various 'tops' and a top hat, black leggings shoes etc - but I decided that in the interests of not scaring the horses, a kilt would be a good idea, so I made an 8 yard, ankle length kilt in reverse Kingussie style.
Normal fabric would have meant it needed wheels to move around in, so it is lightweight, and the aprons are slightly narrow with deep pleats so they fall straight down even under their slight weight.

A good 'normal' kilt seems to weigh just over 2K, annoyingly just more than the UK airmail weight limit, though the temperatures we have been seeing in late April and May meant that my heaviest winter kilts were put away earlier than usual.
I suspect that heavy fabrics able to support themselves are going to go out of favour despite their quality and craftsmanship. Fabric with some percentage of other fibres, a slightly less compact thread count or adjustment to the number of threads so as to create either a more open fabric or a smaller sett size would all contribute to a kilt easier to wear in hot weather.

Having worn just about all my kilts when caught out in sudden heavy rain, it does seem beneficial to the garment. Perhaps it washed out the dressing and softened the fibres a little.

Anne the Pleater

[OC Richard]

For George IV's visit to the old kilt country in 1822, the royal outfitter's records show they supplied The King with a costume consisting of 61 yards of 'Royal Sattin Plaid', 31 yards of 'Royal Plaid Velvet' and 17 1/2 yards of 'Royal Plaid Casemere'.

What was the original wording?

We would need to know if the intended meaning was a single costume consisting of that amount of fabric (which seems inconceivable) or rather that they had supplied that amount of fabric to the King.

It could have been cloth for his costume (or multiple costumes) and/or for costumes for retainers, footmen, and who knows who else.

[OC Richard]

I still don't understand the arithmetic behind kilt material yardage.

I recently got my first 8 yard kilt. It looks great but it is so heavy as to be cumbersome.

My other wool kilt, from USAKilts, is a 5 yarder, and it is noticeably lighter. It still looks great, with ample and sharp pleats.

Alas there's no maths to it! It's simply a matter of preference.

Late 18th century/early 19th century kilts had only around 4 yards. For whatever reason the yardage gradually increased through the Victorian period.

A book I have on the dress of the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders states the following yardages for kilts:

1801: Officers 5, Grenadiers 3.75, All others 3.5

Many soldiers added an extra yard or so at their own expense.

From c1850 onwards allowance of tartan was gradually increased to six or seven yards by 1894.

I have a collection of vintage Highland Dress catalogues which demonstrate that the concept of an 8-yard kilt being standard did not exist.

For example my 1936 RG Lawrie (Glasgow) catalogue offers mens kilts in 6, 7, and 8 yards.

Since the front aprons remain the same regardless of yardage the extra yards all end up in back, making the kilt increasingly unbalanced as the yardage increases.

I prefer around 6 yards. You still have plenty of nice deep pleats and IMHO a couple more yards doesn't make the kilt any better.

I also noticed the cloth (of the 8-yard kilt) is, obviously, heavy and stiff.

Are you connecting the number of yards in a kilt with the weight of the cloth (per yard) used to make the kilt?

Those two things vary independently at the whim of the customer.

Those old catalogues which offer kilts in 6, 7, or 8 yards also offer kilting cloth in light-weight Saxony, medium-weight worsted, and heavy-weight worsted. You could order any combination of yardage and cloth-weight you wanted.

Seems that in those days gentlemen would wear light-weight Saxony kilts for Evening Dress and heavy-weight worsted kilts for Field Dress.

I prefer heavy-weight kilting cloth, and around 6 yards of it, in my kilts.

It causes the aprons to lie straight when sitting down, rather than draping down into the cavern that is your lap.

Not sure what you mean, but generally soldiers and gentlemen, when kilted, sit with knees together, the kilt apron horizontal and fairly straight, not draping down, or legs crossed.