A good one

[Steve Ashton]

"Tradition is just peer pressure from dead people"

[Jock Scot]

"Tradition is just peer pressure from dead people"

Oh I am not so sure about that, the last time I looked I am far from dead!

[OC Richard]

This slogan implies that people who do things according to a tradition are doing so because they are under "pressure".

Furthermore it states that the pressure is coming from dead people.

Neither is true.

A tradition is a dynamic occurring today, amongst a living community.

Traditions have a spectrum of members ranging from the most conservative at one end of the spectrum to the most innovative at the other end.

It's like putting a rope around a mass of 100 people, with a dozen people on one side determined to not move an inch, and a dozen on the other side pushing at the rope as hard as they can, trying to pull everyone with them.

The result is that the mass gradually moves, inch by inch, in the direction the innovators are pushing. It's why all traditions evolve, and do so slowly.

[Tarheel]

A bold statement by Jock. I applaud his spirit but am reminded of a song by Bob Dylan (because we all are just players on the stage of life), "Knockin' on Heaven's Door".

"Do not go gentle into that Good night" by Dylan Thomas defines Jock in my opinion and I aspire to his stature.

[Me cousin Jack]

[Steve Ashton]

Merriam Webster's defines Tradition as -


1 a: an inherited, established, or customary pattern of thought, action, or behaviour (such as a religious practice or a social custom"

1 b: a belief of story or a body of beliefs or stories relating to the past that are commonly accepted as historical though not verifiable
...the bulk of traditions attributed to the Prophet ... J.L. Esposito

2: the handing down of information, beliefs, and customs by word of mouth or by example from one generation to another without written instruction

3: cultural continuity in social attitudes, customs, and institutions

4: characteristic manner, method, or style
in the best liberal tradition


We have been beating this horse for a lot of years now and we still do not seem to have arrived at a consensus. A few have pretty firm ideas of how they would define Tradition and Traditional but it does not seem to be universal or the same for all of us.



We already know that there is no single way to make a kilt. Over the past couple hundred years there have been thousands of kilt makers, each trying to find some way for their product to stand apart from the rest.

We have all of the evidence of how a kilt was worn, and with what accessories, over a long span of time. Styles have changed and views about the wearing of a kilt have changed in that time. And quite significantly changed.


So my question to the rabble is -

How would you compare this definition, to how the word "Tradition" or "Traditional" seems to be used on the forum?

Could it simply come down to a personal preference of the accessories we wear with our kilts such as - "I wear my kilt in what I feel is a traditional style to me."?

Would anyone wish to offer an alternative definition that could be used on X Marks?

[Benning Boy]

Irwin Rommel wrote to the effect standards based on precedent are based on somewhat less than satisfactory performance and for that reason should not be adhered to.

Traditional kilt wear is a kind thing rooted in precedent, maybe we should shake things up.

When we talk about tradition we are also generally talking about culture. The best definition of culture I've found is culture is socially shared and transmitted knowledge both about the way things are or ought to be as seen in the way people act and in the things they make. Tradition is the way culture gets transmitted. Kilt Kulture is a fine example of a tradition bound bit of culture.

We shouldn't forget about memes, those virus like bits of ideas that infect a culture and cause small changes. Xmarks is infested by memes. These are not the internet memes that pollute the web.

[ShaunMaxwell]

Have mercy! Here we go again...

The last time we went down this road, some went through a great deal of effort to define “traditional” as it related to civilian Highland dress:

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...xamples-85511/

Seems like a pretty valiant effort to me and probably as close as we’re likely to come to a working definition.

That we’re still discussing this is indicative of the fact that we’re unlikely to ever reach consensus.

SM

[Karl R]

We already know that there is no single way to make a kilt. Over the past couple hundred years there have been thousands of kilt makers, each trying to find some way for their product to stand apart from the rest.

We have all of the evidence of how a kilt was worn, and with what accessories, over a long span of time. Styles have changed and views about the wearing of a kilt have changed in that time. And quite significantly changed.


So my question to the rabble is -

How would you compare this definition, to how the word "Tradition" or "Traditional" seems to be used on the forum?

Could it simply come down to a personal preference of the accessories we wear with our kilts such as - "I wear my kilt in what I feel is a traditional style to me."?

That seems to be the way it's most often used. A lot of the time, "tradition" seems to mark the particular past example(s) that someone uses as the foundation of their preferred style. And some of the same people use the "tradition" of their preferred style to refute the particular past example(s) that other people use instead.

Would anyone wish to offer an alternative definition that could be used on X Marks?

I first heard this in a religious context, but I think it is relevant here:
"We pay attention to tradition, so we don't have to reinvent the wheel every generation."

The same person pointed out that there were other things that also merited equal consideration, such as reason and personal experience. In other words, tradition is a tool, not an end in itself.

It's similar to your kilt-making example. If you were to teach someone how to make a kilt, you would teach them what you know (or at least some easily-grasped subset of what you know). But you wouldn't expect them to rigidly adhere to your teachings until the end of days. If they can create new techniques that work better for them, or better for the particular kilt they're trying to make, they clearly should branch out from what they originally learned.

Tradition is a source of good ideas. People should make use of them when they wish to ... and ignore them when they have reasons not to.

[ThistleDown]

A few more for you.







The piper was Iain Macgillivray, the Commander of the Clan Macgillivray. The colourful lady represented Spain.