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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troglodyte View Post
    Attachment 43500 Attachment 43501 Attachment 43502 Attachment 43503

    These will be familiar to many on this forum, and this selection of pictures proves nothing - except, perhaps, that the idea of ghillie-brogues being a modern kilt-hire industry invention is unfounded.
    To amplify your point, here are twelve instances of Ghillies being worn in Victorian times.

    In contrast to the recent notion that Ghillies are piper-specific, only one of the subjects appear to be a piper.

    Two men appear to have buckles affixed to the toes of their Ghillies. (These of course are entirely non-functional and are for decoration only.)

    They're the earliest photos I have of Ghillies being worn, save for the photographic portraits of the Allen Brothers.



    Now why do I say that the notion of Ghillies and pipers going hand-in-glove is recent? Because it is.

    Here are pipers in 1950, only two are wearing Ghillies.

    Last edited by OC Richard; 15th May 24 at 04:22 AM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troglodyte View Post
    These will be familiar to many on this forum, and this selection of pictures proves nothing - except, perhaps, that the idea of ghillie-brogues being a modern kilt-hire industry invention is unfounded.
    Perhaps I missed it, but did anyone make such a claim?

    In case that remark was directed my way, I merely pointed out that ghillie brogues have been oversold by hire shops as the only shoe to wear with the kilt, and have become so ubiquitous that ghillie brogues are now (in my mind, anyway) part and parcel of the "hire look". There is no doubt that they have provenance at least as far back as the Highland Revival period, and I do not claim that they aren't a traditional option. But the hire shops have tarnished their image and some people avoid them because they don't want to be thought of as having been dressed by a commercial salesman.

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  4. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobus View Post

    I merely pointed out that ghillie brogues have been oversold by hire shops as the only shoe to wear with the kilt, and have become so ubiquitous that ghillie brogues are now (in my mind, anyway) part and parcel of the "hire look".
    The other aspect is that since the Hire Shops (at least in their early days, the 1980s) were hiring mostly the black Prince Charlie (or black Argyll) + white hose + black Ghillies (sans buckles) the notion got cemented into the American kiltwearing consciousness that Ghilles are the one and only Formal shoe to wear with the kilt.

    I hear all the time people talking about wanting to, or having to, get Ghillies to go with their Evening outfits.

    In Victorian times Ghillies, which as I've mentioned perhaps show up in 10% of the photos at best, aren't often seen in formal contexts.

    However by the 1920s they'd become a formal shoe option, made in patent leather, and having buckles (de rigueur for Evening Dress) while never seeming to become as popular as the more traditional buckle brogue.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  5. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    To amplify your point, here are twelve instances of Ghillies being worn in Victorian times.

    They're the earliest photos I have of Ghillies being worn, save for the photographic portraits of the Allen Brothers.
    They all look to be 1870-90. Slightly earlier is the one of Waller Hugh Paton, Artist by David Octavius Hill c.1860.

    Waller Hugh Paton, Artist by David Octavius Hill c1860.jpg

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  7. #85
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    Thanks for that photo, I've not seen Ghillies like that.

    Sadly the various Allen Brothers photos don't show the shoes clearly, just enough to tell they're some sort of Ghillies.

    BTW I'm reading over the interesting correspondence between Sir Thomas Dick Lauder and Sir Walter Scott which Dunbar quotes at length, and another example of the Allen Brothers' opportunism jumped out at me:

    (Sir Thomas writes)

    "A curious corroboration of the accuracy of the manuscript, if corroboration had been wanting, occurred in the case of Lovat. Talking of his tartan he told the Messrs Hay that although the tartan he then wore was that which was always worn by the Clan Fraser as their Clan Tartan yet some old people of the name maintained that there should be a white sprainge through it. The Messrs Hay on consulting the manuscript found the tartan (therein) to be exactly as worn by Lovat with the addition of the white sprainge..."

    How convenient! Another example of them quickly creating a tartan to fit with tidbits of information they came across.

    Of course this incident must have preceded the Messrs Hay allowing Sir Thomas to make his copy; otherwise Fraser and MacLean both would have exposed the Allen's opportunism.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  8. #86
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    Screenshot (144) 2.png

    I thought I would add this to the mix...

    A cropped still from a mid-'60s film showing a piper in action at a Games in Scotland.

    The low level winding of the red laces, and side tied bow are worth noting. A style worth reviving, do you think..?

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