Wanted: Lovat green tweed Argyle-type jacket and waistcoat, 44S

[User]

I don't know how they can make money if indeed their "woolen wool" kllts are made from Scottish wool from fabrics "designed by House of Edgar (note, not specifically stated to be "woven" by House of Edgar), especially since they say that these kilts are more wrinkle-resistant than traditional wool kilts. They do have a "Contact Us" link on their website.

I wonder if some of their extremely low-priced items are used, although I don't know where they'd get stock in Ogden, UT.

I have NO personal experience. I don't see any information on their website that suggests they have a bricks and mortar shop. I sometimes drive through Ogden. Perhaps next time I'll try to find that out.

The woolen wool sold by utkilts isn't made from Scottish wool. It's from Pakistan and has the "made in Pakistan" sticker except when he cuts it off the packaging. He sells tartans designed by House of Edgar, but the designs are stolen, just like the stolen sporran designs, kilt pin designs, and kilt belt buckle designs he sells.

He has a physical shop (in back of his house), but he expects you to schedule an appointment first, so please do so if you intend to visit him. His shop is more of a storage facility. There's no showroom.

I visited him prior to purchasing two lengths of tartan from him. He was a pleasant fellow with a smiling demeanor. That combined with his low prices explains why people like him so much. But then again, car salesmen and swindlers also smile.

When the tartans I received looked and felt identical to acrylic kilts my family bought at a Scottish festival, I decided to test his "wool" with prolonged submersion in bleach and discovered they were both 100% synthetic. He denied my scientific evidence, but suddenly he was willing to go back on his "no refunds for custom orders" policy, and he refunded me. He re-posted the tartans for sale, still advertising them as "100% woolen wool". So, the man won't let morals get in the way of deceiving customers for profit.

If anyone buys "wool" from him, I advise testing it, and do please share the results:
https://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/...-woolen-99044/

[jsrnephdoc]

The woolen wool sold by utkilts isn't made from Scottish wool. It's from Pakistan and has the "made in Pakistan" sticker except when he cuts it off the packaging. He sells tartans designed by House of Edgar, but the designs are stolen, just like the stolen sporran designs, kilt pin designs, and kilt belt buckle designs he sells.

UTKilts sells "Glen Affric" tartan carrying the same "group" dating label as the fabric woven by House of Edgar. Out of curiosity, I looked up the Glen Affric tartan on the Scottish Register of Tartans website, where it's CLEARLY listed as restricted. I have no idea whether that means it cannot be woven in Pakistan; i.e., whether there are INTERNATIONAL safeguards, but the UTKilts labeling as "designed by" HoE, and including the "1783" and "13 oz" fabric weight labels, together with a much higher price (for a kilt made with just 4 yards of fabric) suggests that UT Kilts is fairly clever at wordsmithing; i.e., I suspect that at least THIS offering on their website IS made from fabric sourced from House of Edgar. But that wouldn't tempt me to order anything from them given all the other information revealed here and the earlier thread discussing the same deception.

[User]

UTKilts sells "Glen Affric" tartan carrying the same "group" dating label as the fabric woven by House of Edgar. Out of curiosity, I looked up the Glen Affric tartan on the Scottish Register of Tartans website, where it's CLEARLY listed as restricted. I have no idea whether that means it cannot be woven in Pakistan; i.e., whether there are INTERNATIONAL safeguards, but the UTKilts labeling as "designed by" HoE, and including the "1783" and "13 oz" fabric weight labels, together with a much higher price (for a kilt made with just 4 yards of fabric) suggests that UT Kilts is fairly clever at wordsmithing; i.e., I suspect that at least THIS offering on their website IS made from fabric sourced from House of Edgar. But that wouldn't tempt me to order anything from them given all the other information revealed here and the earlier thread discussing the same deception.

To be clear (because honesty IS important to me), I only know that the "100% woolen wool" that I received from Utkilts was synthetic. Utkilts also advertises worsted wool from Scotland, and I have no evidence that it's fake. But personally, I don't care to do further business with them to find out. So, if anyone does buy something that Utkilts claims to be worsted wool from Scotland, please test it and let us know the result.

[BobF]

Yeah, I’m not interested in vendors that play word games, even if it’s with only part of their product line. For me, that casts doubt on all of it, and I don’t want to have to be a detective when all I want to do is purchase a garment of known construction and origin. A lot of the eBay vendors engage in tricky wordplay, too. Whenever someone does that, they’re trying to hide or obscure some fact or detail, else they’d use clear, honest language. Many of those vendors at least admit the garment is being shipped from Pakistan. I suspect that some vendors, even in Scotland, are selling Pakistan-made garments, based on the fact that their price for new is less than a quality ex-hire garment. So I’ve been rather hesitant to engage in an eBay purchase.

[kilted2000]

I did say they were less than ideal, but with a May deadline beggars can’t always be choosers.

[Jock Scot]

This thread makes rather concerning reading. Nothing new, I suppose, but how is it that these people still thrive?

[jsrnephdoc]

This thread makes rather concerning reading. Nothing new, I suppose, but how is it that these people still thrive?

Of course, the short answer is that the people who operate the looms in Pakistan probably get paid a tiny fraction of what they would in Scotland.

I suspect that's complicated by unpleasant realities such as their flaunting of restrictions "imposed" on competing mills in Scotland regarding who can weave what Registered or fashion tartan.

The more complex question is what would happen if international trade agreements and Tartan Registry limitations were honored—what would be the quality comparison of fabrics woven in Pakistan vs. those woven in Scotland? My guess is that there ARE dramatic difference, not least of which would be the labeling of synthetic fabrics as "woolen wool" exposed earlier in this thread, but that's not always the case.

Globalization sometimes works for almost everyone, but not always. A prime example, i guess, would be consumer electronics. iPhones aren't assembled in the US because they'd probably cost 2-5 times as much as when they're assembled in China, and (at least in the US), everyone wants one but far fewer could afford them at 5 times the price—and, at least for this example, the market has agreed on the current (regulated) solution.

I have no idea what the price would be for garments made in Pakistan from fabric woven in Pakistan from wool sheared from sheep grazing on Pakistani grass. But it's clear that transportation costs aren't the obstacle to having things done where they cost least mandates having things done where they're consumed.

Here in the USA, for example, organic blueberries typically come from US farms during the summer months. Late in the fall, no matter at what retailer a consumer shops, they come from Peru. As spring approaches, they all come from Chile. Then, when the US warms up, they come from American farms once again. The retail price at the supermarket varies little because of those transitions.

I just watched a YouTube video from a well respected American Piping tutor. He demonstrated tuning his pipes using a total of 4 iPhones, one for each sound source (the bass drone, the tenor drones, and the chanter). Just imagine what the cost would be for the Royal Regiment of Scotland to "tune up" if all those electronic tuning instruments were assembled in the UK or the USA!

I'm NOT advocating in favor or Pakistani weavers, or garment makers, or even sheepherders, just saying that the economic issues are extraordinarily complex.

[Jock Scot]

I quite understand your points Doc. and I imagine not much can be done about it. But, a lot can be done about clamping down on the mis-labelling of goods. That is out and out dishonest and happens on our own doorsteps.