The Scots Who Left

[Irish Jack O'Brian]

While this three-part series does not exclusively deal with kilts, it does cover all things scots and diasporic(?), and there are several good photos of kilts.



Part I: The Scots who left: The Empire builders

Part II: The Scots who left: How the attitude of America to Scots has changed over the years

Part III: The Scots who left: Why America has a new found love for all things Scottish

[Father Bill]

These address a lot of questions raised by the friendly frictions that sometimes surface on this forum, especially the third in the series. Thanks for sharing!

[Mark Stephenson]

These address a lot of questions raised by the friendly frictions that sometimes surface on this forum, especially the third in the series. Thanks for sharing!

I was somewhat surprised by the overall negative tenor of the 3rd article. I await with interest the reactions of the rabble.

[piperdbh]

It's kind of amusing how the author decries the stereotypes and preconceived notions that we Southern Americans all, each and every one of us, with no exceptions whatsoever, hold about his country.

[Father Bill]

I was somewhat surprised by the overall negative tenor of the 3rd article. I await with interest the reactions of the rabble.

"Rabble" Mark, not "rabble."

[Gael Ridire]

This is very interesting article and hurts because of the truth it contains. It helps to put into perspective the recent comments posted by native Scots. I must admit that I have had problems with those who think that at games it is 1745 or 1314 and run around with claymores, targes, baskethilts & dirks. Re-enactors have their place and living history is a wonderful educational tool, but. . .

The sudo histories are rampant at Celtic festivals. I bought into many of them the first couple of years until I researched the truth about kilts, Highlanders & Lowlanders, kirkin' o the Tartan, etc. I must admit my attitude probably helps disseminate some of this thought when I say that "to me the Irish & Scots are the same." I don't mean to insult, but as I've commented in other posts, strapping on the kilt is a spiritual experience for me. I feel connected to my forefathers. But pretending it is 1745 or 1314 I do not do! Not even for a hour. And I've been shot down many a time for telling true history over the romantic versions.

Remembering one's ancestors, one's origins, and one's past is a good thing, even if some buy into the romantic version. It is better then forgetting it or not caring at all.

[Jock Scot]

---- even if some buy into the romantic version. It is better then forgetting it or not caring at all.

Whilst accepting that we all are entitled to a point of view, I really and genuinely am not so sure about the statement above.

[Peter Crowe]

This is very interesting article and hurts because of the truth it contains. It helps to put into perspective the recent comments posted by native Scots. I must admit that I have had problems with those who think that at games it is 1745 or 1314 and run around with claymores, targes, baskethilts & dirks. Re-enactors have their place and living history is a wonderful educational tool, but. . .

The sudo histories are rampant at Celtic festivals. I bought into many of them the first couple of years until I researched the truth about kilts, Highlanders & Lowlanders, kirkin' o the Tartan, etc. I must admit my attitude probably helps disseminate some of this thought when I say that "to me the Irish & Scots are the same." I don't mean to insult, but as I've commented in other posts, strapping on the kilt is a spiritual experience for me. I feel connected to my forefathers. But pretending it is 1745 or 1314 I do not do! Not even for a hour. And I've been shot down many a time for telling true history over the romantic versions.

Remembering one's ancestors, one's origins, and one's past is a good thing, even if some buy into the romantic version. It is better then forgetting it or not caring at all.

I must confess that I have very mixed feelings when I attend Highland Games here in the United States. Generally speaking I have a good time and enjoy myself, and even admire the enthusiasm of many. However, I do get irritable when some people (especially as I am a graduate in Scottish History) try to get me to authenticate their faux romantic views as bona fide Scottish History. I am not prepared to be a charlatan but don't wish to give offence either, and it is embarrassing to have to tell well meaning honest people that many of their cherished beliefs about their heritage are not supported by historical evidence. I do find some (not all) of the vendors (who do know better) at these events are quite happy to indulge peoples misconceptions about Scottish History and culture as long as they make a buck.

By the way, T. M. Devine was Professor of Scottish History at Strathclyde University when I was an undergraduate student with the Dept. of Scottish History at the University of Glasgow. I didn't study under him but he is regarded as one of the leading contemporary Scottish Historians of his generation, and what he wrote in these three articles is correct according to the sources. He is now Professor of Scottish History at the University of Edinburgh, and was previously Chair of the School of Scottish and Irish Studies at the University of Aberdeen.

[Mark Stephenson]

It is true that the romanticized version of Abner Doubleday having invented baseball is just so much fiction, and the game of baseball today is far different from the game the New York Knickerbockers played in 1845. However, that does not diminish my appreciation and enjoyment of the game as it is played today. I am well aware that my Great Great Grandfather and his forefathers did not wear the Stephenson tartan I wear today, but that does not diminish the fact that I appreciate my Scottish highland heritage, and honor it by wearing the tartan.

It does seem that Tom Devine was not as interested in objectively analyzing the "Scottish explosion" (as he called it) as he was in presenting a one-sided criticism of it. For example, I am a proud member of the Caledonian Society of Cincinnati. It was founded in 1827. Clearly, not all Scottish-American activities are new creations. I would be more likely to treat Devine's work as a scholarly effort instead of as a negative philippic had he presented a more balanced view of the "Scottish explosion".

[Jock Scot]

Mark, I say this with the greatest of respect and most certainly not to belittle anything in your country, but in Scottish terms, something that started in 1827 is not that old and would almost be regarded as new in some circles here.