Why don't more people wear old non-clan tartans?

[figheadair]

With the immense increase in the wearing of the kilt and related items I'm interested why people don't wear many of the older, pre-Repeal, tartans particularly when they own more than one kilt. Many of these old patterns are extraordinarily beautiful and connect us to a culture and history in a unique way by virtue of the fact they were there. They would make excellent kilts and for re-enactors we actually have examples of old plaid, kilt and jacket patterns. There are also a number of clan tartans that fit into the same category. The few such patterns offered by the manufacturers are usually completely wrong and they don’t seem to be interested in historical accuracy.

Is it that:

1. People want to wear something with which they have a connection?
2. They don't know about these old patterns?
3. The material is not generally available?
4. The material is, or is perceived to be, more/too expensive?
5. Some other reason?

[Jock Scot]

With the immense increase in the wearing of the kilt and related items I'm interested why people don't wear many of the older, pre-Repeal, tartans particularly when they own more than one kilt. Many of these old patterns are extraordinarily beautiful and connect us to a culture and history in a unique way by virtue of the fact they were there. They would make excellent kilts and for re-enactors we actually have examples of old plaid, kilt and jacket patterns. There are also a number of clan tartans that fit into the same category. The few such patterns offered by the manufacturers are usually completely wrong and they don’t seem to be interested in historical accuracy.

Is it that:

1. People want to wear something with which they have a connection?
2. They don't know about these old patterns?
3. The material is not generally available?
4. The material is, or is perceived to be, more/too expensive?
5. Some other reason?

Nos 1 to 3 cover your excellent question well I think. As a local who is moderately interested in tartans and would like to think is reasonably well informed have no real idea where to easily access a view of these "forgotten" tartans. By easily I don't mean delving into dusty archives in some museum, or trolling around the Internet after some "will 'o the wisp" idea. So your Question no 5 could be; where can all these " unknown" tartans be easily found for us to see what is available to us?I have little idea what choice there is for this traditional single clan tartan wearing fellow. Once those questions have been covered, then your question 4 comes into play!

Basically us mere mortals don't know about these old patterns.

[Whidbey78]

Nos 1 to 3 cover your excellent question well I think. As a local who is moderately interested in tartans and would like to think is reasonably well informed have no real idea where to easily access a view of these "forgotten" tartans. By easily I don't mean delving into dusty archives in some museum, or trolling around the Internet after some "will 'o the wisp" idea. So your Question no 5 could be; where can all these " unknown" tartans be easily found for us to see what is available to us?I have little idea what choice there is for this traditional single clan tartan wearing fellow. Once those questions have been covered, then your question 4 comes into play!

Basically us mere mortals don't know about these old patterns.

I agree. I think that #4 plays a big role as well. Money always comes into play...and even if one wishes to save for it the desire to get a rare tartan (usually a special order item with a longer wait than others) may get trumped by the desire to get something more readily available though still seldom seen. Of course, this option is usually a bit less expensive as well. I would rather be able to get it sooner and cheaper given my 'druthers.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I would say it is a combination of those factors, Peter. Even for those who know about them, the fact that they are not stock supported by the mills means they are going to be a bit more difficult for the average person to obtain. Even though having a tartan custom woven for you doesn't have to be as expensive as many people perceive it to be, it does require a bit of extra cost and effort. And in my experience, few people are going to go the extra mile of having a tartan custom woven simply because they like the design. For the most part, if they are going to the trouble of ordering something custom, it is going to be a tartan that has personal significance to them (i.e. a clan or family tartan, or something else for which they have a connection).

I mean, I went through the effort of recreating the tartan worn in this 1859 painting, "Sheep Washing in Glen Lyon."


(The colors turned out a bit lighter in the cloth than they appear in the painting, but I'm happy with the way it looks nonetheless).

I'm a "tartan geek" though, and I think things like this are pretty cool. :-) I recognize the fact that I'm in a minority. Plus I'm in the business. I get my cloth at wholesale pricing and I make my own kilts. Which means it can be relatively easy for me to follow a wild hair and do something like this. If I was paying regular retail pricing for a custom weave of tartan, plus paying a kilt maker to tailor the kilt for me, I certainly wouldn't own as many kilts as I do and I sincerely doubt I'd own this one!

So yes, I think it is partly just people not knowing about the existence of these tartans, but more than that I believe it is the unavailability and the cost, coupled with the fact that people will always give precedence to tartans that "mean something" to them.

[Jock Scot]

Just suppose that I was in the market for a new kilt and I fancy the idea of something different(its alright chaps the old boy is not going senile----I hope-----yet) to what we all know. I think I know all my clan tartans---but is there something lurking in the "old" tartan file? Is there a district tartan that I might like, lurking somewhere?Is there an un-named tartan that might take my fancy? How do I find names, samples, or better still, pictures of these masterpieces?

[Highlander31]

Just suppose that I was in the market for a new kilt and I fancy the idea of something different(its alright chaps the old boy is not going senile----I hope-----yet) to what we all know. I think I know all my clan tartans---but is there something lurking in the "old" tartan file? Is there a district tartan that I might like, lurking somewhere?Is there an un-named tartan that might take my fancy? How do I find names, samples, or better still, pictures of these masterpieces?

Jock,

Peter MacDonald has listed 100 of the original tartans in his book, "The 1819 Key Pattern Book." He also weaves short run tartan using the old colors.

http://www.scottishtartans.co.uk/index.htm


Islay Woolen Mill is another company specializing in small run work. Islay is a family run business using looms dating back to the Victorian age.

http://www.islaywoollenmill.co.uk/

[longhuntr74]

If one of our tartan scholars on here wanted to put together a list and associated pictures, I'd be very interested to see it. As a reenactor I'm interested in a kilt of the pre-ban era...maybe even pre-culloden, though I don't reenact anything prior to 1750s.

[Tartan Hiker]

Here's a list of "Old and Rare" tartans that might be one place to start such a perusal. There is a pop-up window for each tartan so it's relatively easy to view the pattern. If you enlarge the pop-up window you'll see the date and source for each tartan.

Some of these are just palettes ("ancient", etc.) but most are genuinely rare patterns.

http://houseoftartan.com/scottish/it...&Subsecid=1499

[figheadair]

Jock,

Peter MacDonald has listed 100 of the original tartans in his book, "The 1819 Key Pattern Book." He also weaves short run tartan using the old colors.

http://www.scottishtartans.co.uk/index.htm

Thanks for the recommendation.

The 1819 KPB is of course a bit late for this thread as it deals with the early pattern of Messrs Wilsons of Bannockburn.

It's interesting watching this thread develop and the reasons appear to be much as I thought. There have been a number of references to exisiting publications and websites which are fine so far as they go but in every case they rely on earlier reference works many of which are faulty.

It's the dusty museums, private houses and collections that hold the key. In more than 30 years of research I've only scratched the surface of what survives but it's amaing how often the specimens have been misrecorded. The Culloden tartan is a prime example. As these pieces are in essance our historic tartan gene pool we, the nation, ought to be preserving them in a way that they are available to future generations. Unfortunately this isn't happening and it always seems to be left to charities and individuals to try and preserve what should be a national asset. But I digress.

I suppose the bottom line is if the information is not available then people cannot make a choice. A little winter project perhaps.

[artificer]

...As these pieces are in essance our historic tartan gene pool we, the nation, ought to be preserving them in a way that they are available to future generations. Unfortunately this isn't happening and it always seems to be left to charities and individuals to try and preserve what should be a national asset. But I digress.

I suppose the bottom line is if the information is not available then people cannot make a choice. A little winter project perhaps.

I'll wager it will be a BIG winter project, but invaluable, should it be done.