Why don't more people wear old non-clan tartans?

**Highlander31** · 11th October 10, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

Just suppose that I was in the market for a new kilt and I fancy the idea of something different(its alright chaps the old boy is not going senile----I hope-----yet) to what we all know. I think I know all my clan tartans---but is there something lurking in the "old" tartan file? Is there a district tartan that I might like, lurking somewhere?Is there an un-named tartan that might take my fancy? How do I find names, samples, or better still, pictures of these masterpieces?

Jock,

Peter MacDonald has listed 100 of the original tartans in his book, "The 1819 Key Pattern Book." He also weaves short run tartan using the old colors.

http://www.scottishtartans.co.uk/index.htm

Islay Woolen Mill is another company specializing in small run work. Islay is a family run business using looms dating back to the Victorian age.

http://www.islaywoollenmill.co.uk/

**longhuntr74** · 11th October 10, 09:22 AM

If one of our tartan scholars on here wanted to put together a list and associated pictures, I'd be very interested to see it. As a reenactor I'm interested in a kilt of the pre-ban era...maybe even pre-culloden, though I don't reenact anything prior to 1750s.

**Tartan Hiker** · 11th October 10, 09:43 AM

Here's a list of "Old and Rare" tartans that might be one place to start such a perusal. There is a pop-up window for each tartan so it's relatively easy to view the pattern. If you enlarge the pop-up window you'll see the date and source for each tartan.

Some of these are just palettes ("ancient", etc.) but most are genuinely rare patterns.

http://houseoftartan.com/scottish/it...&Subsecid=1499

**figheadair** · 11th October 10, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by Highlander31

Jock,

Peter MacDonald has listed 100 of the original tartans in his book, "The 1819 Key Pattern Book." He also weaves short run tartan using the old colors.

http://www.scottishtartans.co.uk/index.htm

Thanks for the recommendation.

The 1819 KPB is of course a bit late for this thread as it deals with the early pattern of Messrs Wilsons of Bannockburn.

It's interesting watching this thread develop and the reasons appear to be much as I thought. There have been a number of references to exisiting publications and websites which are fine so far as they go but in every case they rely on earlier reference works many of which are faulty.

It's the dusty museums, private houses and collections that hold the key. In more than 30 years of research I've only scratched the surface of what survives but it's amaing how often the specimens have been misrecorded. The Culloden tartan is a prime example. As these pieces are in essance our historic tartan gene pool we, the nation, ought to be preserving them in a way that they are available to future generations. Unfortunately this isn't happening and it always seems to be left to charities and individuals to try and preserve what should be a national asset. But I digress.

I suppose the bottom line is if the information is not available then people cannot make a choice. A little winter project perhaps.

**artificer** · 11th October 10, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by figheadair

...As these pieces are in essance our historic tartan gene pool we, the nation, ought to be preserving them in a way that they are available to future generations. Unfortunately this isn't happening and it always seems to be left to charities and individuals to try and preserve what should be a national asset. But I digress.

I suppose the bottom line is if the information is not available then people cannot make a choice. A little winter project perhaps.

I'll wager it will be a BIG winter project, but invaluable, should it be done.

**xman** · 11th October 10, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by artificer

I'll wager it will be a BIG winter project, but invaluable, should it be done.

Seconded.

**ThistleDown** · 12th October 10, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by figheadair

Thanks for the recommendation.

The 1819 KPB is of course a bit late for this thread as it deals with the early pattern of Messrs Wilsons of Bannockburn.

It's interesting watching this thread develop and the reasons appear to be much as I thought. There have been a number of references to exisiting publications and websites which are fine so far as they go but in every case they rely on earlier reference works many of which are faulty.

It's the dusty museums, private houses and collections that hold the key. In more than 30 years of research I've only scratched the surface of what survives but it's amaing how often the specimens have been misrecorded. The Culloden tartan is a prime example. As these pieces are in essance our historic tartan gene pool we, the nation, ought to be preserving them in a way that they are available to future generations. Unfortunately this isn't happening and it always seems to be left to charities and individuals to try and preserve what should be a national asset. But I digress.

I suppose the bottom line is if the information is not available then people cannot make a choice. A little winter project perhaps.

Should we not then seek funding for a project of this size, Peter? Some ideas? A start? Seriously. A singular cultural idea on which to build a program. If attempts have already been made, inform us: to whom, on what basis, under what auspice? If older attempts met with failure, why was that and when?

**figheadair** · 13th October 10, 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by ThistleDown

Should we not then seek funding for a project of this size, Peter? Some ideas? A start? Seriously. A singular cultural idea on which to build a program. If attempts have already been made, inform us: to whom, on what basis, under what auspice? If older attempts met with failure, why was that and when?

Gosh Rex. This goes back at least 30 years to the early STS days and has been a running sore for those of us interested in tartan ever since. The bottom line is I suppose why is it that a country with such a unique cultural symbol doesn't have a national museum to preserve it and tell its story.

You know as well as I that there is a great deal of antipathy in certain circles to tartan which is seen as everything that is teuchter and coothy. Unfortunately a majority of MSPs are from the central, urban belt and have little interest in the subject.

I pleased to say that there are group of interested individuals from the historical side of things that are better connected and are pushing once again for the establishment of a national centre. That will take time but the anniversary of 1822 might be a realistic timeframe. What can others do? Ask the question why there isn't a national centre for tartan, or indeed textiles to include tweed, drugget and other uniquely scottish materials.

**ThistleDown** · 13th October 10, 08:15 AM

Thanks, Peter, for that nutshell.

How does the Textile Heritage project fit in here? My understanding was that its funding purpose was the gathering of knowledge on all Scottish textiles, including tartan, and the development of some sort of network between the many small and large collections.

**figheadair** · 13th October 10, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by ThistleDown

Thanks, Peter, for that nutshell.

How does the Textile Heritage project fit in here? My understanding was that its funding purpose was the gathering of knowledge on all Scottish textiles, including tartan, and the development of some sort of network between the many small and large collections.

Not sure it does really although it should. It has a little bit of tartan and related connections but misses out all of the non-publically funded collections which is where an awful lot of the gems are. A start but given its significance to Scotland I really believe that tartan needs to stand on its own.