Which tartan for MacClive?

[David]

Tim, have you used the Scotlands People website? http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

I tried a couple of searches of the birth records for Ian Robert MacClive. with no luck. I noticed you spelt his name as Ian and not Iain. Ian being the anglisised version of the name I thought I'd try Robert MacClive with a wide year range. i used Robert as sometimes when families had only a few christian name variations (like mine did) they used other names to differentiate between individuals and "Ian" just seemed strange to me. I got 11 results between 1538 and 1845. I have run out of credits on the scotlandspeople web site and cant be bothered going upstairs for my plastic to buy more, so over to you if you think its worth following up. You may at least find a possible geographical origin for your families name.

[Nathan]

From Wikipedia's articles on Clan Stewart and Clan Stewart of Appin:

Clan Stewart has no chief, and is an armigerous clan. The Earl of Galloway is considered to be the senior cadet, but is not chief. The senior cadet is Randolph Stewart, 13th Earl of Galloway. Clan Stewart of Appin is the West Highland branch of the Clan Stewart and have been a distinct clan since their establishment in the 15th century. The Adherents or "septs" (a modern term) of Appin stem from families that lived in Lorn prior to the Stewarts gaining the Lordship and the clan coalescing. These were/are the MacColls, who descended from Black Solomon, son of Coll, son of the Lord of the Isles, The MacLeays or Livingstones (anglicized from MacLeay), who were reported to be on Lismore in 1130, but who's heritage is so old that know one really knows their beginnings, The MacGillemichaels, or their anglicized form "Carmichael", are also so old that we can only guess. It is know that they were present in Appin prior to the 13th century. The Combichs descended from a family nickname from north Appin and the MacRobbs were/are actually Stewarts, descending from Robert, son of Dugald, 1st of Appin. The MacInnes, originally from the area of Morvern, settled in the area in the early 15th century. Adherents included/include the Carmichaels, MacCombichs, MacColls, MacGillemichaels, McIlmichaels, MacInness, MacLeays, MacMichaels and MacRobbs (related by blood to the Stewarts).[1][2]

The article sites as sources:
1) The Stewarts of Appin. Stewart and Stewart. 1880.
2) Starforth, Michael (1997). A Short History of Clan Stewart of Appin, 1463-1752, and it's [sic] unfailing loyalty to the Royal House of Stewart. Appin Historical Society. ISBN 0-9530743-0-7.
and
3) Way, George and Squire, Romily. Collins Scottish Clan & Family Encyclopedia. (Foreword by The Rt Hon. The Earl of Elgin KT, Convenor, The Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs). Published in 1994. Pages 459 - 461.

I see a few themes coming up often:

1) Scottish Livingston - S. Gaelic - Dunnshliebhe
2) Irish MacCleave - I. Gaelic - Dunnshliebhe
3) Stewart of Appin - West Highland branch of the Stewart Clan (Appin is in Argyll and Bute)
4) Northern Ireland - To the West of Scotland (Counties Down and Antrim where the name Dunnshliebhe is found more commonly)
5) Ayr - South West of Scotland
6) Ayrshire - lies between Argyll and Galloway. Ayrshire shares with Dumfries and Galloway some rugged hill country known as the Galloway Hills.
7) Family history that the family comes from Ayrshire.
8) Resources that list similar names as either Stewart of Appin or associated with Galloway.

Top Stewart is the Earl of Galloway.

[MacCorquodale]

Oops, I think I accidentally flagged your post instead of hitting aye-doh!

My apologies to the mods.

Sorry!

[ctbuchanan]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that the name was Irish, I simply was quoting the source. Having run a Clan tent for a very long time I always temper my assumptions by saying first of all if your family tradition or legend is of Scottish origin it very often is correct. I never argue with grandma's.

[MacCorquodale]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that the name was Irish, I simply was quoting the source. Having run a Clan tent for a very long time I always temper my assumptions by saying first of all if your family tradition or legend is of Scottish origin it very often is correct. I never argue with grandma's.

Well like many I have a quirky family, so no offense taken- who knows. Any help is appreciated greatly!

[Nathan]

So, I sent an email to Houston traditional kilt makers who list MacClive as a sept of Stewart of Appin, and asked for his source. This is a relevant excerpt from his reply:

Hi Nathan,
Yes, it is a sept of Stewart this is the work of Dr. Philip D. Smith phD, fsic, gts, fsa scot, past Governor of the STA tartan. For me, I class him as god on tartan.

http://www.tartansauthority.com/tart...3&key=macclive

[MacCorquodale]

Excellent! Thank you so much for all your hard work!
You cannot imagine how grateful I am!

[figheadair]

[QUOTE=Nathan;1233352]So, I sent an email to Houston traditional kilt makers who list MacClive as a sept of Stewart of Appin, and asked for his source. This is a relevant excerpt from his reply:

Hi Nathan,
Yes, it is a sept of Stewart this is the work of Dr. Philip D. Smith phD, fsic, gts, fsa scot, past Governor of the STA tartan. For me, I class him as god on tartan.

Oh dear . History based on local phone books!

[MacCorquodale]

[QUOTE=figheadair;1233451]

So, I sent an email to Houston traditional kilt makers who list MacClive as a sept of Stewart of Appin, and asked for his source. This is a relevant excerpt from his reply:

Hi Nathan,
Yes, it is a sept of Stewart this is the work of Dr. Philip D. Smith phD, fsic, gts, fsa scot, past Governor of the STA tartan. For me, I class him as god on tartan.

Oh dear . History based on local phone books!

What do you mean?

[Nathan]

Oh dear . History based on local phone books!

I didn't post that email reply to say "case closed" but rather to get to the bottom of the claim that's out there about the Stewart of Appin connection. I was hoping you'd weigh in with some further information. Are you familiar with Dr. Smith? Is he still living? Is his scholarship generally respected? Is there any way I might be able to follow up with him and determine his evidence for the claim? To reenforce the OP's question, what do you mean when you say history based on local phone books?