Outlander Wardrobe and language

[Layne]

My wife and I regularly watch the show together, thus this thread did catch my attention. Admittedly, I did not read every post, but was relieved that I was not the only one to realize that the time travel element in episode #1 would to a large degree, negate the need for authenticity.

[OC Richard]

Seems like Outlander isn't the first TV series to use tartans like that to depict "early Highlanders"

[OC Richard]

Now my wife and I are getting hooked on Outlander a bit, we've watched the first four episodes on DVD.

I'm surprised a bit by the bold move to use so much Gaelic. It's authentic of course, but risky because so many Americans are strangely annoyed by foreign languages and accents. (Brave was widely shown in the USA with subtitles!)

When speaking English, however, I believe the Highlanders should be using a Highland accent rather than the "broad Scots" which I'm hearing much of the time.

Here's a short clip which well demonstrates the difference

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dYWjJC7keM

[WVHighlander]

OC Richard,

If I was to take a stab at it, I would guess the use of Broad Scots is to allow for a greater understanding across its viewers. You pointed out the use of Gaelic, which did not have subtitles on the episodes I saw, being difficult for Americans and other English speakers to watch for long periods....how much more so if even the English was difficult to understand. I think this is the same as many of our historically based movies be it Robin Hood not speaking Norman, French, Saxon, or Early English, which would be historically accurate, or Gladiator not using Latin or Spanish. my 2 ¢

[OC Richard]

That's my point, is that the Highland accent is much easier for non-Scots to understand, because it's more or less Standard English with a soft Gaelic accent. Scots on the other hand is a quite distinct dialect of English with its own vocabulary as well as being more different in pronunciation. That's why it strikes me as odd to hear all the "dinna ken" type stuff in Outlander.

A Highland accent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ-pYQ8hpog

And here, the unscripted speaking at 1:48

http://www.dialectsarchive.com/scotland-13

This is to be contrasted with the Scots dialect, or Lallans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSK8qzqDAew

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJamYKRo-Hc

The Highlanders in Outlander, I'm pretty sure, would be speaking more with the Highland accent than in the Scots/Lallans dialect.

[neloon]

That's my point, is that the Highland accent is much easier for non-Scots to understand, because it's more or less Standard English with a soft Gaelic accent. Scots on the other hand is a quite distinct dialect of English with its own vocabulary as well as being more different in pronunciation. That's why it strikes me as odd to hear all the "dinna ken" type stuff in Outlander.

A Highland accent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ-pYQ8hpog

And here, the unscripted speaking at 1:48

http://www.dialectsarchive.com/scotland-13

This is to be contrasted with the Scots dialect, or Lallans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSK8qzqDAew

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJamYKRo-Hc

The Highlanders in Outlander, I'm pretty sure, would be speaking more with the Highland accent than in the Scots/Lallans dialect.

Strictly speaking, both Scots and English are forms of Angle-ish and, since Scots has changed away from that much less than English, maybe English is a dialect of Scots

To me, the first supposed Skye accent is Irish. The second Skye speaker has lived so long in the Lowlands that he has collected a glottal stop - quite foreign to the Highlands.
The first two Lallans contributors are well-known language activists using Scots as nobody actually speaks it. The Borders example is good. There is also the Doric, of course, which is impenetrable to most of the rest of Scotland but one character in "Brave" uses it for the amusement of us locals
Alan

[Nathan]

Strictly speaking, both Scots and English are forms of Angle-ish and, since Scots has changed away from that much less than English, maybe English is a dialect of Scots

To me, the first supposed Skye accent is Irish. The second Skye speaker has lived so long in the Lowlands that he has collected a glottal stop - quite foreign to the Highlands.
The first two Lallans contributors are well-known language activists using Scots as nobody actually speaks it. The Borders example is good. There is also the Doric, of course, which is impenetrable to most of the rest of Scotland but one character in "Brave" uses it for the amusement of us locals
Alan

All great points, Alan. While I completely agree with Richard's point, I think the accents in his examples are a bit off. I'm a member of the Toronto Gaelic Society and many of the members are native speakers from the Highlands and don't sound much like either example provided.

Sadly, I think people are expecting a lowland accent when things are set in Scotland. If they had used a Gàidhlig accent a bunch of numpties probably would have complained about their "bad Irish accents" rather than understanding the diversity of Scottish dialects in English.

[OC Richard]

The reason the Scots accents in Outlander strike me so oddly is because I've been around a fellow who is a true Highlander for many years and am used to his accent and way of speaking. He's a Gaelic speaker from one of the islands (don't recall which offhand) and his pure vowels and lilting voice couldn't be more different from Lowland speech. Yes Highland accents are often perceived as sounding "Irish" because they come from the same process: Gaelic speakers learning English.

Thing I was thinking about, regarding Outlander, is that the boundary between Scots and Gaelic would have been much further south in 1743 than today. Would that have meant Gaelic speakers learning their English from Scots speakers, rather than from Standard English speakers as it has been in the more recent past?

(Sorry I'm using "English" and "Standard English" in the ways understood in the wider English-speaking world, not meaning the specific dialects now spoken in England.)

[Nathan]

The reason the Scots accents in Outlander strike me so oddly is because I've been around a fellow who is a true Highlander for many years and am used to his accent and way of speaking. He's a Gaelic speaker from one of the islands (don't recall which offhand) and his pure vowels and lilting voice couldn't be more different from Lowland speech. Yes Highland accents are often perceived as sounding "Irish" because they come from the same process: Gaelic speakers learning English.

Thing I was thinking about, regarding Outlander, is that the boundary between Scots and Gaelic would have been much further south in 1743 than today. Would that have meant Gaelic speakers learning their English from Scots speakers, rather than from Standard English speakers as it has been in the more recent past?

(Sorry I'm using "English" and "Standard English" in the ways understood in the wider English-speaking world, not meaning the specific dialects now spoken in England.)

That was the excuse I made up for it in my mind. Since the act of proscription, the Highland gentry have been educated in England so they have a posh southern accent. My question is, what was the common region of origin for the anglophone teachers that transmitted the language in the Highlands and Islands?

Gaelic speakers in Nova Scotia learned English from Canadian Anglophones and Gaelic speakers in Scotland learned them from British Anglophones of whatever variety or varieties yet their accent is very similar.

I agree with you that the "dinna ken" stuff isn't quite right.

I think it was an artistic decision because the stereotype of Scotland is a confluence of Highland and Lowland cultures. They put William Wallace in a kilt and they gave Jamie Frazier a Scots accent. It's show biz not History class. Pass the popcorn.

Edit: Then again, if we refer to the Flyting of Dunbar and Kennedy, we can see that Kennedy, the Highlander, used a lot of what we'd today call Scots.

http://www.lib.rochester.edu/camelot...untxt4.htm#P83
http://www.thomondgate.net/docs/dunb...ingglossed.pdf

[OC Richard]

To me, the first supposed Skye accent is Irish.

This?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ-pYQ8hpog

The guy was born and raised on Skye and lives there now, though he did spend time living off the island.

His accent is very similar to a Highland fellow I've known for years. I'll try to find "pure" examples, of people who spent their whole lives on one of the islands; it's true that someone can change their accent when they move about, depending usually on how old they were when they moved away. But about that fellow, now that he's back where he was raised his accent will steadily shift back to its original form.

Anyhow about Outlander it was nice to see the waulking with real waulking songs and the fual.