What Is ‘Made in Scotland’ Worth?

[BobF]

I don’t believe the Rolls Royce/Nissan analogy is quite on point. Nissan is not making a car that is pretending to be a Rolls, nor is it a poorly-built copy of a Rolls. They are both well-built cars with their own identities serving two very different market segments. No one shopping for a Rolls would be fooled into buying a Nissan. And a car made in Japan does nothing to diminish the automaking culture of Britain. Nissan does not stamp their cars “Made in England.”

Perhaps a better analogy would be to compare Elvis Presley to an Elvis impersonator. From a distance they may appear the same, but the execution and quality/performance would not bear up under closer examination. The lesser might satisfy less discerning consumers, but not all. And one knows it’s an imposter, adopting another’s identity and hiding their own.

[Janner52]

Up to a point in time, the only kilts and associated attire, were those made by qualified kiltmakers using Scottish woven tartan. There was no other choice. Anyone requiring a kilt would either have to save up, buy second hand or inherit. Professionally made kilts last for years so quality items would have been available.Prior to the 60s when we still had an army of reasonable size there seemed to be an abundance of regimental kilts to keep the scout movement and numerous pipe bands going. I have a band issue 1947 Seaforth kilt which apart from some dodgy alterations, is in really good condition.

Then along comes the kilt hire industry which seems to thrive on inventing new tartans in unlikely colours to keep interest going.

This is accompanied by the cheap garment producers who clearly are not interested in quality, only in mass production and with no concern about the heritage craftspeople who make the real garment.

It seems to me that the custom of men and boys wearing kilts for daily activities died out in the 70s with the advent of various fashion trends for youngsters. Do feel free to correct me on this.

Jumping forward to the present, kilt wearing seems to have become a cool thing to do for weddings, supporting Scottish football and rugby and formal events.

As an example of the way things have changed, anyone attending the College of Piping in Glasgow in the 70s would have seen the teachers wearing the kilt. I have seen photos of pipe bands boarding an aircraft for a foreign tour, all wearing kilts.

[OC Richard]

No one shopping for a Rolls would be fooled into buying a Nissan.

Yet thousands of people buy kilts and sporrans in Edinburgh tat shops thinking that they're getting Scottish-made items.

I meet these people all the time. They're wanting a kilt for their upcoming event and where better to buy a genuine kilt than in Scotland? And there they are, in their wrinkly acrylic crudely machine-sewn kilt and ghastly sporran.

Unlike here in the USA, seems that in Scotland there are no laws requiring all clothing to be labelled with country of origin, a detailed breakdown of fabric content, and laundering instructions.

It's even more insidious with bagpipes. I cringe every time a new student says that they bought their bagpipe in Scotland. It's always a Pakistani bagpipe. Every one of these people think that they bought a legitimate Scottish-made pipe.

And back to the Nissan/Rolls Royce analogy, when somebody buys a Nissan they're getting an actual working vehicle. Even when somebody buys a knockoff Gucci purse they're still getting a functional purse. Not so when people buy Pakistani bagpipes, because they're not getting a functional musical instrument, but rather a nonfunctional prop, an Instrument-Shaped Object.

Ebay makes it worse because Pakistani sellers can blatantly lie, like this

https://www.ebay.com/itm/38895886949...ndition=4%7C10

[Jock Scot]

Yet thousands of people buy kilts and sporrans in Edinburgh tat shops thinking that they're getting Scottish-made items.

I meet these people all the time. They're wanting a kilt for their upcoming event and where better to buy a genuine kilt than in Scotland? And there they are, in their wrinkly acrylic crudely machine-sewn kilt and ghastly sporran.

Unlike here in the USA, seems that in Scotland there are no laws requiring all clothing to be labelled with country of origin, a detailed breakdown of fabric content, and laundering instructions.

It's even more insidious with bagpipes. I cringe every time a new student says that they bought their bagpipe in Scotland. It's always a Pakistani bagpipe. Every one of these people think that they bought a legitimate Scottish-made pipe.

And back to the Nissan/Rolls Royce analogy, when somebody buys a Nissan they're getting an actual working vehicle. Even when somebody buys a knockoff Gucci purse they're still getting a functional purse. Not so when people buy Pakistani bagpipes, because they're not getting a functional musical instrument, but rather a nonfunctional prop, an Instrument-Shaped Object.

Ebay makes it worse because Pakistani sellers can blatantly lie, like this

https://www.ebay.com/itm/38895886949...ndition=4%7C10

Personally, I would always purchase(UK) a bespoke kilt and kilt jacket. It is not a 'snobby' thing at all, it's just that I like my kilts, suits, shotguns to fit properly. Even if I gain or loose a few pounds they still fit properly. Which is why I don't have a tartan collection in kilt form filling my wardrobe! And, a lot less expensive in the long run. So I have no personal experience of Pakistani kilt attire which is what I often, I assume, see worn when I am out and about. There is a huge difference in look between one and the other.

I am no piper, so I cannot really comment from personal experience, but your comments above about Pakistani pipes being sold here really concern me.

[SF Jeff]

I am no piper, so I cannot really comment from personal experience, but your comments above about Pakistani pipes being sold here really concern me.

It's a problem if Scottish retailers are selling this stuff, whether it's attire or pipes. Any experienced piper can tell Pakistan pipes a mile away, but most tourists buying attire don't have an eye for quality and probably just assume it's made in Scotland if they are buying it in Scotland. Or worse, being told it's made in Scotland when it's not.

[OC Richard]

Any experienced piper can tell Pakistan pipes a mile away...

Yes they can, but sadly the people buying the pipes aren't experienced pipers, they're people (usually Americans) who have always wanted to give the pipes a go, and when in Scotland Itself buy a bagpipe that they imagine surely must be Scottish-made.

Or the parent (usually American) who takes the opportunity while in Scotland to buy a set for their child, or nephew or niece, who has long expressed an interest in the pipes.

It's like the foreign tourist who, in a Native American jewellry shop here in the American Southwest, purchases an "authentic Native American" bracelet or necklace made in China.

BTW there are some Pakistani bagpipes which are more difficult to suss out. Yes we see all the super-cheap Sheesham Wood pipes with nasty aluminium mounts, but the Pakistani makers also make pipes from Ebony and African Blackwood, with real ivory and hand-engraved Sterling Silver mounts. These can be difficult, even for experts, to distinguish in photos from legit pipes.

Until you stick reeds in there and try to play them! Then it's revealed that they're an ISO, not a musical instrument.

[kiltedsawyer]

I don’t believe the Rolls Royce/Nissan analogy is quite on point. Nissan is not making a car that is pretending to be a Rolls, nor is it a poorly-built copy of a Rolls. They are both well-built cars with their own identities serving two very different market segments. No one shopping for a Rolls would be fooled into buying a Nissan. And a car made in Japan does nothing to diminish the automaking culture of Britain. Nissan does not stamp their cars “Made in England.”

Perhaps a better analogy would be to compare Elvis Presley to an Elvis impersonator. From a distance they may appear the same, but the execution and quality/performance would not bear up under closer examination. The lesser might satisfy less discerning consumers, but not all. And one knows it’s an imposter, adopting another’s identity and hiding their own.

Thank you for your input. I was not suggesting that buyers were being deceived into buying a product of lesser quality, but simply stating that they are two different markets. For many, if not for the cheaper kilts, they would not own a kilt at all.
Cheers,

David

[Jock Scot]

Thank you for your input. I was not suggesting that buyers were being deceived into buying a product of lesser quality, but simply stating that they are two different markets. For many, if not for the cheaper kilts, they would not own a kilt at all.
Cheers,

David

Personally, I honestly wish that there were no such things as cheaper kilts, or cheap kilts sold expensively.

[Pleater]

I have various books about fashion, costume and clothing and in those about English smocks there are so sad tales of how, in late Victorian times the smock was considered old fashioned and a mark of poverty. One poor fellow had a daughter in service in London, and she replaced his Sunday smock with a modern top coat, but he went about in shirt sleeves rather than wear the coat as it was so foreign to him.

Although the kilt is considered so quintessentially Scottish there is a traditional Korean garment, worn by the military, which is basically a kilt, pleats, wrap over and all - though secured with cloth ties or other non buckle closures, secured to a short jacket, also wrap over and secured with ties, with a kimono style collar. There was also an option with removable sleeves so that it was easier to practice archery.
The jacket was also made and worn separately over a gown, by women, or trousers by either sex.

I find it rather sad that clothing is so disposable these days. I find that bringing my clothes out of storage and putting away those which are out of season gives me a feeling of contentment, particularly renewing the acquaintance of warm jerseys and jackets at this time of year. Some winter garments are decades old - waxed jackets, the coat I wore when sailing, tested up to force 10 in the Solent, the blue wool and rayon jumper, yarn bought with my mother before I left home over 60 years ago, the fur and leather gloves, suede mittens, hose I wore when yomping around on the Pennines and the South Downs, and up to the cystell Dinas Bran.

The thing about buying cheap is that you have to buy it often - good quality lasts - Terry Pratchett wrote about it - the Sam Vimes philosophy of boots where a rich man spends 50 dollars on a really good pair of boots that will last ten years at least. a poor man spends 10 dollars every year, so at the end of ten years he has paid out 100 dollars and he still has wet feet.

Anne the Pleater